why gregory is dead and the muslim fleet is burned to crisp nothing treatens carthage the berbers and romans can take care of any caliphate forces and as prove by the otl even after loosing most of its navy the romans still had enougth to reconquer the city in here they have near abosulte naval control to supply and sent reinforcments.
WI: Constans II Triumphant
- Thread starter Paschalis
- Start date
also wasnt carthage relatively secure if they kept sea hegemony ? I remeber that it was even briefly reconquered
I was under the impression that it is in decline and suffering desertification thanks to changing climates
Lady Visenya
Donor
It kinda is, as well as due to raids and such. But it's not nearly as badly off as it'll be by the 10th century, and with a more stable Africa there's the possibility that more cultivation can be done.
I didn't realize Constan II destroyed the fleet during the first Fitna, so I guess there is hope. Although without the Arabs to conquer the Visigoths, I suppose that Franks could do that if Italy is under Roman authority.
Before it the pod is that Constans would win the battle of the mast leaving the governor of syria fleet sunk
Thanks for clearing that up and glad we all agree that is the designated POD.
Just wondering but without the arabs to conquer the Visigoths, would Charles Martel and his descendants take up that role or Berber King Ausaila of Altava.
It really doesn't matter. If the invader is Berber or Frankish or it's a new dynasty with out the cultural ties of Islam the invader would asimilate and just become another Spanish dynasty
I can see that with the Franks when looking at their history of coquest and division. Not so much for the Berbers, as they have a well defined society and culture that could reverse the cultural decline in Spain at this time.
the division laws might not aplly due depends if the frankish king would keep the inheritance laws or by convenience use the visigothic inheritance law to make one son the only king
as for the bebers well nah simply put they would assimilate it would take longer about 4 to 5 generations maybe but the berbers would convert to catholicisim since the berbers were diverse in faiths , the language would also be different from north africa as it was actually the north african romance that brought many things of spanish like the thing like the shorting or long vowel , the similarity of V and B , Ñ and more so while (if african romance survives in the north africa) it would be distinct from the ibero romance proto spanish in the peninsula and over time the languages would split , also there is much more latin and germanic influence in hispania compared to that in north africa .
i research did because in my timeline i do have the berbers conquer the place
I'm not that familiar with gothic law, but I doubt the Caroligians would abandon Salic law so quicky. Heck this could lead to north south split of the Frankish empire instead of OTL's east and west.
Well if I recall the Visigoths converted to Roman Catholicism in the 650s and the Berbers were devout followers as well.
As for languages it would probably become creole fusion of Latin and Berber languages.
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1) it could be the one of the frankish kings conquering hispania say the king of aquitine invades and conquers it the most likely division is that of his son in aquitiane and hispania
in the visigothic spain the king chose a succesor and important memebers in the clergy would ratify it the other sons would have property but no spliting or a lot of power as dukes or that the kingdom of the visigoths was more centralized than the frankish ones while civil wars could occur (see the civil war before the conquest of the uyameds)
its not as common any frankish king would IMO adopt the visigothic law inmedietly so that his sons wouldnt have to kill each other once he is dead of course the other sons would not be happy but the eldest would have the support of the power clergy and the other sons would not have a base of power due to no one giving them one after their fathers death if he adopts it .
the visigoths converted in 589 not 650s
2) unlikely if it was romano berbers , tamazing would the looser over the centuries replaced by ibero romance because they would be a puny minority that dint have the cultural clout of islam for people to adopt arabic (you dont need to learn tamazig or other beber languages to read the bible) and the romano berbers would already now latin and thus wouldnt need to change anything sure i can see it having 10% at max influence but dying out as time passes.
True and given how killing Roderic allowed the Umayyads to easily conquer Hispania in otl, it wouldn't be a stretch of the imagination that Lupus I could do the same against Wamba.
maybe not wamba sure if he dies on battle yes but wamba was a good king but he could more likely do it against Erwig even then of course 717 hispania is not 680s hispania things where more stable under wamba and heck despite its troubles even during erwig but from erwig things went down hill fast
Recceswinth hispania was the most statble out of all of them if he dies things migth horribly but that would depend if like roderic he and most of the visigothic nobility dies in battle.
Alright so with that settled. Would the Umayyard Caliphate expand eastward into India and Central Asia earlier and more aggressively than OTL?
there is no guarantee of an umayyad caliphate muawiya was the one leader at mast if he looses he would be the first arab to loose a major battle against the byzantines assuming the first fitna occurs in the same time he migth not win due to the recent defeat
Hold the phone, if Muawiya falls from grace because losing the Battle of the Masts, wouldn't this allow Aisha to come to power instead?