WI: Communist Germany in WW2

Don't flamebait. In a typical Western discussion (combined with "communism is equal to Nazism" crapshit) this sounds like a blood libel. The more correct version of the statement would be "Jews are heavily left-leaning", which is largely true even today. All David Frums and Ezra Levants of North America notwithstanding, Jews are still overwhelmingly voting left-of-center, even in very North America. In 1st half of 20th century it was almost an axiom. Jew==liberal (at best) or commie (at worst).

That wasn't actually intended as flamebait, though I guess I could have phrased it better. Jews have historically been great supporters of socialism and Communism. Many of the great Soviet leaders (including Trotsky) were Jewish; the early Zionists were universally socialist, and a lot of the German Communists were Jewish. Most people think that Communism's emphasis of secular equality is what was so attractive.

To repeat a quote my grandmother told me from the 50s: "Not all Communists are Jews, but all Jews are Communists". (Please note that both my grandmother and I are Jewish, if that puts a different perspective on that particular quote)

Buddy, you do have a talent to stir the fertilizer :) :) :) Actually, if you look at where the particular country starts and where it ended, commie countries are mixed bag. According to (obviously anti-communist) CIA world factbook, Cuba in 2009 sits smack-dab between Brazil and DR in the terms of GDP per capita (adjusted for PPP). However, traditionally growth in developed countries going communist (E. Germany, Czechoslovakia) had been somewhat stunned comparing to their free-market neighbours. Part of this lag can be attributed to heavy defense spendings (Communist system never controlled more than quoter of world economy but had to maintain a military parity, which caused at least three times bigger defense expenditures), but inherent ills of planned economy are undoubtedly responsible too. Simply speaking, GDR Inc or USSR Inc were too damn big to be managed effectively (said factor almost killed another supercorporation, GM Inc). How much effect this system disadvantage have we would never know. However, I would say at least 10 to 20%, may be as high as 30% systemic loss (a number I consider extremely unlikely, but still). So, all in all, France would be somewhere between Italy and New Zealand.

Right, but no "fully developed" nation has ever successfully undergone a Communist revolution. The relative economic weakness of East Germany, Czechoslovakia, Poland etc. can be largely attributed (I think) to Russia squeezing all of the delicious economic juices out. Also, one theory I've heard for West Germany's success vs East Germany is the lack of a Marshall Plan in the latter's case.
 

Old Airman

Banned
To repeat a quote my grandmother told me from the 50s: "Not all Communists are Jews, but all Jews are Communists"
Buddy, if it doesn't sound too personal, what country is your grandma from? Obviously not USA (where Jews were far too accepted by Gentile society by that time to look for refuge in radical left ideas) or USSR (where growing alienation from mainstream lead to Jews overwhelmingly adopting rightist ideas).
The relative economic weakness of East Germany, Czechoslovakia, Poland etc. can be largely attributed (I think) to Russia squeezing all of the delicious economic juices out. Also, one theory I've heard for West Germany's success vs East Germany is the lack of a Marshall Plan in the latter's case.
Poland doesn't belong here, it had never been "a developed country" in proper sense. And E. Germany versus W. Germany is a very complicated comparison I was trying to avoid. Yes, Marshall versus reparations did play a role.
 
Buddy, if it doesn't sound too personal, what country is your grandma from? Obviously not USA (where Jews were far too accepted by Gentile society by that time to look for refuge in radical left ideas) or USSR (where growing alienation from mainstream lead to Jews overwhelmingly adopting rightist ideas).
Even in the US, communist or socialist radicalism was the dominant political current among Jews until at least the early 50s. My grandmother was old enough to remember a time when communism was a major force in urban American working class neighborhoods, and I suspect his was as well.
 
Buddy, if it doesn't sound too personal, what country is your grandma from? Obviously not USA (where Jews were far too accepted by Gentile society by that time to look for refuge in radical left ideas) or USSR (where growing alienation from mainstream lead to Jews overwhelmingly adopting rightist ideas).

Canada! And actually, the middle class Jewry was very involved with Communism in the USA in the interbellum and through the 50s. Jews in the US were not so accepted. To paraphrase Mad Men (a great historical source, I know) Jews in the early 60s "Bought Jewish products at Jewish stores owned by Jewish proprietors."

More credibly, look at political cartoons from the time: Jews (and Irish, and Italians) are often portrayed as black. Most universities didn't let Jews in beyond quotas (my uncle got a scholarship pulled from Stanford in the early 60s because they're exceeded their Jewish quotas). Jewish doctors weren't hired by hospitals (see the profusion of Jewish Hospitals, most founded in the early 20th century), and even Jewish patients wouldn't be treated by many hospitals. Complete Jewish assimilation in the (mainstream) US dates from the late 60s and no earlier.

Poland doesn't belong here, it had never been "a developed country" in proper sense. And E. Germany versus W. Germany is a very complicated comparison I was trying to avoid. Yes, Marshall versus reparations did play a role.

Fair; I was trying to give examples of non-USSR nations nevertheless in the sphere of influence.
 

Old Airman

Banned
Canada! And actually, the middle class Jewry was very involved with Communism in the USA in the interbellum and through the 50s. Jews in the US were not so accepted.
Interesting. I thought that allure of communism had been long dead for N.A. Jewry by 1940 (especially looking at how fast they jumped into same anti-soviet bed with minor Holocust perps, a.k.a. "Baltic and Romanian emigre organizations"). Yes, I know that 1950s weren't all that rosy for American Jews (hell, everyone who ever watched Dirty Dancing and realised it depicts segregated Jewish-only resort does), but I didn't think they still considered Communism a viable alternative.
 
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