WI:Communism Was Never Invented?


communism is one of the most infuetul ideology,s in history with the ideas of karl marx being on of the great thinkers of modern history.

what do you think was commuism inavable or could it have been prevented.
 
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You need to add comments to this for it to be accepted. You are new so you don't know this but the mods don't like it when you simply give a link. That said the video should have been "What if Marxism wasn't invented"as there were Communist movements before Marx.
 
Something near identical takes its place? :p

If the only change in this world is that Marx doesn't get to invent Communism, not much is going to change. If you look into the early days of the European leftist movements, you'll see that lots of people were all pushing towards some ideology that would provide an alternative to the capitalist world in which they found themselves.

You might see differences in the perspective, but I find it hard to countenance a sort of "great man" view of history where Marx's contributions were genuinely unique and couldn't have been accomplished by anyone else.
 

Minty_Fresh

Banned
I think a movement much like socialism except without an explicit rejection of religion, but rather, an embrace of Christianity, would be quite possible.

Something similar to the agrarian left wing populism of William Jennings Bryan could find popularity in the states most likely to face revolution (just like OTL, it would be Russia and China where this would take hold). Bryanism or whatever we want to call it is the ideology that I think could cut clearly across national lines in various forms and gain popularity.
 
It's funny to see that the author believes that without the revolution would be possible rise to power of the Social Democrats.
 
It's funny to see that the author believes that without the revolution would be possible rise to power of the Social Democrats.
A lot of things are possible and this is one of them. The Russian Revolution did little except kill a lot of people and lead a lot of people down a path of failure and mass murder for 70 years.
 
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A lot of things are possible and this is one of them. The Russian Revolution did little except kill a lot of people and lead a lot of people down a path of failure and mass murder for 70 years.
The first - the Russian Revolution was not bloody, even during the storming of the Winter Palace opponents afraid to shoot each other. Blood spilled during the civil war, but have not started it red.
Second - White also staged terror. Some of them collaborated with the Nazis during the occupation.
Third - to say that the revolution has brought only blood and suffering is not to see the whole picture. Thanks to the revolution the country where 80% of the population was illiterate, became one of the leaders in this field. Russia has become a modern and developed country, with its space program, with high employment, which could count on the government.
Fourth - can justify the Red Terror and Stalinist repression !? But! Is it possible to justify racism, persecution of homosexuals, McCarthyism, the extermination of Native Americans and other !? No!
Fifth - It is impossible to fully identify Marxism and the Russian Revolution. Many interpretations have been very ... strange.
Sixth - in many respects Marx was right: The Great Recession (chaotic nature of capitalism), imaginary needs (do you really think that people really need to change the iPhone every year, and despite the fact that they are not much different), the IMF (the globalization of capitalism) the Walmart (monopoly), low wages, high income (industrial reserve army of labor)
 
The first - the Russian Revolution was not bloody, even during the storming of the Winter Palace opponents afraid to shoot each other. Blood spilled during the civil war, but have not started it red.
Second - White also staged terror. Some of them collaborated with the Nazis during the occupation.
Third - to say that the revolution has brought only blood and suffering is not to see the whole picture. Thanks to the revolution the country where 80% of the population was illiterate, became one of the leaders in this field. Russia has become a modern and developed country, with its space program, with high employment, which could count on the government.
Fourth - can justify the Red Terror and Stalinist repression !? But! Is it possible to justify racism, persecution of homosexuals, McCarthyism, the extermination of Native Americans and other !? No!
Fifth - It is impossible to fully identify Marxism and the Russian Revolution. Many interpretations have been very ... strange.
Sixth - in many respects Marx was right: The Great Recession (chaotic nature of capitalism), imaginary needs (do you really think that people really need to change the iPhone every year, and despite the fact that they are not much different), the IMF (the globalization of capitalism) the Walmart (monopoly), low wages, high income (industrial reserve army of labor)

1) The whole Civil War was part of the Revolution. It doesn't end at the storming of the Winter Palace, that was just the beginning. The French Revolution didn't end with the storming of Bastille did it?
2) Of course they engaged in terror themselves. I never stated otherwise.
3) It was already starting to reform, the economy was growing faster prior to WWI than during the best years under Stalin. Russia , even at its height, was a poor, backwards country that was economically an upper Third World. It merely was big enough to have a large enough population to make nukes. It was like Mexico with nuclear missiles .
4) Racism (against Central Asians mostly) , persecution of homosexuals, witch hunting against anti-Communists that made McCarthyism look tame and the forced removal of various ethnic groups happened in the USSR.
5) Marxism was a theory. It was going to change the moment the rubber hit the road, that was inevitable. There is no doubt that Marx was considered a theorist by the Communist government. It was called Marxism-Leninism for a reason!
6) Economies go up and down, they need to. The only way you have no ups and downs is to have status. You can't (by definition) have change with status. Whether you want to have a new iphone or not is irrelevant. If people want a new one who are you to say no? The IMF gave loans to socialist regimes in the Third World during the entire Cold War, most was wasted. Walmart competes with Target, Kohls , Shopco and dozens of other retailers which means it isn't a monopoly and the cure for monopolies is NOT making one giant government one, wages are high compared to the Third World and the Communist Countries when they were around as there are reasons why people from Mexico come to the US for even minimum wage jobs, of course some people have a pretty high income is that a bad thing?
 
1) The whole Civil War was part of the Revolution. It doesn't end at the storming of the Winter Palace, that was just the beginning. The French Revolution didn't end with the storming of Bastille did it?
2) Of course they engaged in terror themselves. I never stated otherwise.
3) It was already starting to reform, the economy was growing faster prior to WWI than during the best years under Stalin. Russia , even at its height, was a poor, backwards country that was economically an upper Third World. It merely was big enough to have a large enough population to make nukes. It was like Mexico with nuclear missiles .
4) Racism (against Central Asians mostly) , persecution of homosexuals, witch hunting against anti-Communists that made McCarthyism look tame and the forced removal of various ethnic groups happened in the USSR.
5) Marxism was a theory. It was going to change the moment the rubber hit the road, that was inevitable. There is no doubt that Marx was considered a theorist by the Communist government. It was called Marxism-Leninism for a reason!
6) Economies go up and down, they need to. The only way you have no ups and downs is to have status. You can't (by definition) have change with status. Whether you want to have a new iphone or not is irrelevant. If people want a new one who are you to say no? The IMF gave loans to socialist regimes in the Third World during the entire Cold War, most was wasted. Walmart competes with Target, Kohls , Shopco and dozens of other retailers which means it isn't a monopoly and the cure for monopolies is NOT making one giant government one, wages are high compared to the Third World and the Communist Countries when they were around as there are reasons why people from Mexico come to the US for even minimum wage jobs, of course some people have a pretty high income is that a bad thing?
1) In most areas of Soviet power was established without bloodshed. About the beginning of the Civil War can speak only in 1918 (in fact to me it is difficult to name any single war, we can talk about a series of conflict reached its climax in the same year, and ended in a 22-23). About the French Revolution difficult for me to say something.
2) Ok.
3) Not really. Economic growth under Stalin still was higher, also must take into account that after the war, the Russian economy was in a much more difficult situation than at the beginning of the last century, moreover, managed to become the second largest economy in Europe (the first was the Third Reich .... yes and that for this he needed to devour Czech). And what about the atomic bomb that is the merit of Kurchatov, not territories. And the standard of living was still higher than in Mexico (and in fact he was from the start higher, so comparing them is not correct).
4) has never been in the Soviet Union overt racism, migration of peoples was, but there was no such idiocy as "Toilets black", "Places whites only" and other bullshit. While at first the Bolsheviks actively cooperated with the local population, Russification revived under Stalin, which can be described only as chauvinists. As for Gays - originally Soviet Union homosexuality was decriminalized, but then came Stalin and article for sodomy (and then only in the Soviet Union it was not strictly in Britain that same time). What about the witch hunt - we need to think about the feasibility of persecution of dissidents in general and not to find fault with individual cases and must be criticized any regime that applied such measures (no such that, as it were hints).
5) It's like Nietzsche called the father of Nazism (agree in this case I exaggerated the similarities, but I think the point is made). Much of what was said and done, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, and other monsters as does not correlate with Marxism. Marx himself said that if the money overly cruel, you should think about the goals. And I do not speak about the economy!
6) Many, if that can be bought for such salaries !? It is important. For less than in America pay a Soviet citizen could afford larger (and certainly much more than the modern Russian). And we must remember that a large part of social services was free, people were getting one of the best formations for free, just after passing a competition at the university! This is the first. Second, I did not say that globalization is bad, but its present form is beneficial to corporations, "third countries" is simply operated. Third is the "Seven Sisters", international banks ... with all this crap the small businessman can not cope! They cater to the Giants. Third - The fact that some richer than others is not bad .... it is not rational. According to the idea of getting rich must be best, but richer once again they did not. Richer lucky, and many businessmen in psychology and behavior to resemble the usual scams. We now turn to the development of the most - our economy (and in fact the whole historical process) resembles waves, or a pendulum. When lifting "prosperity, stability, happiness," the fall - hunger, chaos and devastation. Each time it has to be rebuilt, and the price of such changes is too high. It is necessary to take into account that not only kills the bad, and the best die, averaging law turns into a stele Ahriman.
 
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