WI Columbus had encountered the Aztecs on his first voyage?

If instead of landing in the Bahamas and encountering the primitive and peaceful Taino people he instead landed in southern Mexico and encountered the more advanced and more warlike Aztec civilization.

Let's assume he at least makes it back to Spain alive after this encounter.
 
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If instead of landing in the Bahamas and encountering the primitive and peaceful Taino people he instead landed in southern Mexico and encountered the more advanced and more warlike Aztec civilization.

Let's assume he at least makes it back to Spain alive after this encounter.

Hmm... Well the exposure to European diseases would kill a lot of Azetcs earlier than in RL, conversely I expect syphilis to be imported to Europe by Chris's boys like in RL.

The difference here is that the Aztecs, and the various tribes around them will have more time to absorb the damage and rebuild, while the rest of Spain learns of the 'savage' Empire on the other end of the world. Spain (and the rest of Europe) lack the means to launch a full-scale invasion of a civilization across the Atlantic ocean, so they would be forced to approach this very carefully, IF Columbus also brought back SOMETHING to show the Spanish court that any return trip to 'Asia' like this would be worth it.

Considering the POD involves his meeting with the Aztecs resulting in him fleeing for some reason, I doubt he'd have had the chance to collect much in the way of trade-goods.

Plus... If we assume that Columbus was forced to flee quickly, this implies that there was some sort of fight, some of his men died, others captured, and he might have only been able to leave with one or two ships.

So there'd be some things left behind for the Aztecs to poke at, maybe even improve their tech-base a bit, which would make them even more dangerous fighters against the various tribes around them that HATE them for the endless Flower Wars and human sacrifice.


This is one of the reasons why (in RL) a handful of Spanish explorers were able to beat a civilization of millions of people, all the other tribes and nations around the Aztec Empire HATED THEM and worked to help the Spanish destroy the Aztecs.

In this POD? It might be awhile before anyone in Europe works up the nerve to launch a second expedition. Who wants to go to a land of hot, humid jungles where a highly advanced civilization is filled with warriors wearing animal pelts that will capture you and sacrifice you to their demon-gods? Especially if Columbus fails to bring back anything of material value...
 
Considering the POD involves his meeting with the Aztecs resulting in him fleeing for some reason, I doubt he'd have had the chance to collect much in the way of trade-goods.

The OP only says that Columbus returns to Spain alive, not that he has to flee anywhere. It would be perfectly within the scenario bounds if Columbus met with the Aztec Emperor, regaled him with tales of Spain, got given loads of gold as a present, and sailed back east accompanied by the good will of everybody in Tenochtitlan.
 
The OP only says that Columbus returns to Spain alive, not that he has to flee anywhere. It would be perfectly within the scenario bounds if Columbus met with the Aztec Emperor, regaled him with tales of Spain, got given loads of gold as a present, and sailed back east accompanied by the good will of everybody in Tenochtitlan.

Or that's what he'd say, only unfortunately the gold got lost on the way.
 
Well. I think it would end in tears.

I mean assuming Colombus manages to pass the Caribbean islands without landing, and has the provisions to get to the coast, and avoids a mutiny.

The Spanish will not react well to the Aztecs enthusiasm for human sacrifice. The Aztecs will not react well to European diseases. And the Aztecs enthusiasm for sacrifice has made them hugely unpopular among their neighbours. They are pretty tottering as is, if the plagues start, I would expect them to be extinct in short order.

Colombus was not a man known for his religious tolerance or patience with the natives. It is quite possible that he manages to offend badly and the whole expedition ends right there on the altars. If he does manage to be diplomatic enough to get away, he will likely have the gold he needs so desperately to show Ferdinand and Isabella. Paradoxically this may mean less of a zerg-rush against the Americas, because OTL he found so little he needed to publicise it very heavily, and because of the impression of massive armies in the west.

Of course, on his way back he probably encounters the Caribbean anyway.
 
Who wants to go to a land of hot, humid jungles where a highly advanced civilization is filled with warriors wearing animal pelts that will capture you and sacrifice you to their demon-gods? Especially if Columbus fails to bring back anything of material value...

IDK, sounds like a pretty good target for a crusade.
 
Columbus had the habit of taking the nearest native he saw and making them into slave-interpreters. If he happens upon a fairly populated area, this might cause a minor diplomatic crisis.
Or that's what he'd say, only unfortunately the gold got lost on the way.
Given that Isabella promised Columbus a cut of the profits from the New World and his own governorship, I highly doubt that would happen.
 
If instead of landing in the Bahamas and encountering the primitive and peaceful Taino people he instead landed in southern Mexico and encountered the more advanced and more warlike Aztec civilization.

Let's assume he at least makes it back to Spain alive after this encounter.
caribbean_map.gif

I'm pretty sure it's physically impossible for him to miss every Carribean island. He has to sail right through them.
 
caribbean_map.gif

I'm pretty sure it's physically impossible for him to miss every Carribean island. He has to sail right through them.

Maybe a load of convenient storms blow him past the islands, and convenient mists prevent him from seeing them.

Or, if that's too implausible for you, just say that after landing on Hispaniola and restocking he decides to sail west a bit further to see if there are any other lands nearby, and ends up landing on the coast of Mexico.
 
caribbean_map.gif

I'm pretty sure it's physically impossible for him to miss every Carribean island. He has to sail right through them.

Yes it'd be unlikely to miss the Caribbean islands first but I don't think there was anything stopping him from from continuing on to the Mexican gulf if he so chose too.

His first landing spots were nothing remotely close to what he was expecting to find so I can see him wanting to venture more inland. The Aztec empire would have probably been a better approximation roughly of the treasures of Japan and China he was looking for, certainly more so than the Tainos and Arawaks he encountered iotl.
 
This could create a collapse of the Aztec empire which was on the decline anyway due to an earlier plague, which would probably leave several middle power states in its place. The Spanish still might be able to play them off against one another but it would be harder without a common enemy. On the topic of him missing all the islands maybe it would be easier to say that he landed on Martinique or Dominica and assumed that it was a small isolated island like Merida before continuing on to Mexico to meet the aztecs and co.
 
The OP only says that Columbus returns to Spain alive, not that he has to flee anywhere. It would be perfectly within the scenario bounds if Columbus met with the Aztec Emperor, regaled him with tales of Spain, got given loads of gold as a present, and sailed back east accompanied by the good will of everybody in Tenochtitlan.
makes sense--no way of knowing of Ahuitzotl would've been as receptive of the Spanish as Moctezuma was (even disregarding the whole "Cortez was Quetzalcoatl" idea, he was clearly eager to meet with them since he pretty much personally invited and harbored them) but it's a reasonable guess that he could be interested in them
 
All things considered Columbus might do something greedy and stupid,and nobody would return to Europe. That could buy the Aztecs another decade before the next contact which they'd be more prepared for.
The Aztecs would go down to a European power but it would take until the 1600s and might require a crusade.
 
All things considered Columbus might do something greedy and stupid,and nobody would return to Europe. That could buy the Aztecs another decade before the next contact which they'd be more prepared for.
The Aztecs would go down to a European power but it would take until the 1600s and might require a crusade.

But if he does barely get out alive, he's still going to put the best possible spin on his 'success'.
 
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