With what crews are they piloting all these ships to India? I am skeptical there is an army of troops willing to just ditch their lives to travel halfway across the known world on a whim.
WI: Cleopatra and/or Antony escape to India?
- Thread starter Parmenion
- Start date
How Mediterranean? There was the continent in the way.
Yes, there may have been a canal; but if so, it was shallow and suitable mainly for riverboats. Open sea ships were often deeper even then.
Would it have made sense for Antony and Cleopatra to commandeer all seaworthy ships on Egyptian Red Sea coast and sail away, inter alia to hamper pursuit till Octavian has built new ships in Red Sea?
Not what you wanted, but what if they set up a Greco-Roman exile kingdom on the island of Socotra at the meeting point of the Indian Ocean and Red Sea?
Logistically speaking it's easier to reach, the island had already been colonized by the Greeks, it was far enough away from Rome or other major powers to not get invaded in the short term, and they have access to the vast resources and wealth of the Indian Ocean trade network?
Logistically speaking it's easier to reach, the island had already been colonized by the Greeks, it was far enough away from Rome or other major powers to not get invaded in the short term, and they have access to the vast resources and wealth of the Indian Ocean trade network?
For the same reasons the British ignored Socotra despite its strategic location, I’d imagine. The island is barren and has no good anchorage.
There was Canal of the Pharaohs but I don't know was it passable to sea ships. If not there is not way get away through Mediterranean. It was literally lake of the Romans. And even if they manage get beyond modern Gibraltar Straits it not help any. Them have go around whole the continent. I don't know if Egyptian ships were even able to do such trip. Phinicians did but not sure about Egyptians.
So only way would be either land route. And it would be really hard if not impossible. Or get to some harbor on Red Sea but not sure was there any good harbors or ships available.
Actually, they were just going to roll them across the Sinai Ottoman style.
How much money would Antony's and Cleopatra's heads actually be worth to Octavian? Presumably the chance of them gathering enough force to attempt a reconquest of Egypt is extremely low, so I wonder whether Augustus might decide sending assassins after those two or something is not worth the effort.
Mhh, that makes me wonder is there any island more suitable then Socotra they could attempt to colonise?
Maybe they get inspired by Herodotus' story of the Phoenician sailors who would have circumnavigated Africa and decide to start a colony in South Africa? I think the story is likely false (I have never read of any Phoenicians who bragged about their ancestors sailing around Africa); however, it is apparently possible to reach South Africa and Cleopatra and Antony might believe the story to be true out of whish full thinking. Though a large problem would be convincing other people they should go with them, I presume.
I'm guessing there's a reason most famous explorers weren't royalty, though. If you're going into exile, you could at least try for a safer and more comfortable one instead of trying your luck with the unknown.
Hmm, yes that makes my idea seem even more implausible than it already was. Unfortunately, a still-pagan Ancient Egyptian kingdom being found in South Africa during the Age of Exploration seems like it might make for a great TL. (Or Crusader Kings II mod; they already have an Aztec Invasion, so why not an Ancient Egyptian Invasion from South Africa?)
Though, I suppose it might depend on their personalities. I do not know whether Cleopatra and Marc Anthony were the kind of person to go 'I'd rather be ruler of a town at the end of the world than a mere rich noble in a prosperous and civilized country'.
They would flee to India but I don't think Octavian would care enough to actually do something against them, they're too far away and by that point would have lost their power base
There most definitely were. Berenice and others which the Ptolemies used for shipping to Arabia and India.
Ships? There will be some ships in port. Does anybody know how many? What was the seasonal pattern of sailing - Octavian arrived in August 30 BC. In July-August 30 BC, how much shipping would Antony, Cleopatra and Caesarion find seaworthy and present in their Red Sea ports? Assuming that they load every usable ship with people, provisions and treasure and burn the unseaworthy ships to slow down Octavian from repairing them and pursuing...
Monsoon season in the Indian Ocean is usually in the Spring and Summer.
If I might provide my own opinion, I think they would do pretty good for themselves. Assuming Cleopatra brings her gold they'll be able pay their way to upper society, to say nothing of her royal blood. I'm sure the fact that she's queen of Egypt will look good to the local nobles, and maybe even the king might be open to a marriage allience between their children, as a way to make a future claim against Rome. In many ways I think it would be like when the Sassanids fled to China, just without the massive cultural gap between the elites.
The Canal only worked during flooding season and was notoriously dangerous due to the shifting currents of the flood every year.
I read a TL here quite awhile ago, one of my favorites actually, called After Actium where Cleopatra flees east and marries the Scytho-Yuezhi king Sapadbizes and becomes Queen of Bactria (eventually she becomes queen of Egypt again because of earlier PODs in the TL, a very good read imo).
If Cleopatra actually does install herself in Bactria or the Indo-Greeks either with Antony or marries a powerful general/noble and manages to survive any assassination attempts I could see her little corner of Asia becoming a relevant regional power in central Asian affairs given she was a very deft stateswoman and highly intelligent.
Unmitigated Pedantry argues, with decent arguments, that whatever her intelligence, Cleopatra was actually not a good stateswoman. She screwed up every time she had to win support of more than one man.
I strongly dispute this. Cleopatra was playing the geo-political game on extreme difficulty with virtually no external allys of note, there was literally no one or nobody that could’ve been put in her position and been likely to succeed without Rome being sucked into a time vortex by Alien Space Bats.