WI: City-states in the Ottoman Empire

I have noticed, to my knowledge, that there is a lack of city states throughout of the history of the Ottoman Empire. If there were no city states within the Ottoman Empire, what if there were? What kind of PoD would lead to the development of Ottoman city states?
 
"City-States" by definition are sovergein entities, so having one inside the Empire is a contradiction of terms. As for tributaries, there was Ragusa on the Adriatic, and in several cases Venice paid to have "quarters" in various cities, or early on paid dues to maintain control of her Aegean colonies. There was also the Sheriff's of Mecca, who in effect ran a city-state
 
I have noticed, to my knowledge, that there is a lack of city states throughout of the history of the Ottoman Empire. If there were no city states within the Ottoman Empire, what if there were? What kind of PoD would lead to the development of Ottoman city states?
Maybe a surviving Sale Republic joins the Ottomans as a vasall ( Problem is its location in Marocco).
 
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The Ottomans were a unifying empire. To imagine lots of city states, is a situation more like the numerous small Turkish beyliks in the 14th century. If these had somehow evolved into a Turkish version of the Italian city states for example, that could be interesting. Chaka Bey, Emir of Smyrna, did build a fleet in the late 11th century and came close to becoming emperor. Who knows what other Turkish city states might have achieved?
 
The Ottomans were a unifying empire. To imagine lots of city states, is a situation more like the numerous small Turkish beyliks in the 14th century. If these had somehow evolved into a Turkish version of the Italian city states for example, that could be interesting. Chaka Bey, Emir of Smyrna, did build a fleet in the late 11th century and came close to becoming emperor. Who knows what other Turkish city states might have achieved?
Yeah but city-state leagues were extremely factional with every city having its own goals, grudges, and policies. The only times a fraction of them unified temporarily were against a hegemony rising among them or foreign invaders. Its hard for a confederation to function with that much autonomy.
 
The Ottomans were a unifying empire. To imagine lots of city states, is a situation more like the numerous small Turkish beyliks in the 14th century. If these had somehow evolved into a Turkish version of the Italian city states for example, that could be interesting. Chaka Bey, Emir of Smyrna, did build a fleet in the late 11th century and came close to becoming emperor. Who knows what other Turkish city states might have achieved?

Interesting idea, but can Anatolia sustain similar population densities than Italy? The climate is similar enough and the coastlines are rich, but it seems to lack farmlands such as the Po river basin.

Unless they import their food from *Ukraine and Egypt...
 
"City-States" by definition are sovergein entities, so having one inside the Empire is a contradiction of terms.

No, they are not. THE Empire - the Roman Empire - consisted overwhelmingly of non-sovereign city-states, and had a policy of founding city-states in areas that lacked them.

What PoD would make Ottomans to incorporate city-state local polities, rather than only country-states?
 
No, they are not. THE Empire - the Roman Empire - consisted overwhelmingly of non-sovereign city-states, and had a policy of founding city-states in areas that lacked them.

What PoD would make Ottomans to incorporate city-state local polities, rather than only country-states?

It consisted of cities\urban centers as the main spread of political power rather than mass settlement , yes, but I fail to see how you could meaningfully call them City-States.
 
No, they are not. THE Empire - the Roman Empire - consisted overwhelmingly of non-sovereign city-states, and had a policy of founding city-states in areas that lacked them.

What PoD would make Ottomans to incorporate city-state local polities, rather than only country-states?
States, and city-states by their definition as a subclass of a state, are by definition sovereign and independent.
 
The HRE was far more a legal construction, while the Ottoman Empire was mostly build on military might. The fact that the HRE was primarily a legal construct meant that the city states could use courts to fight for their liberties, Hamburg pretty much kept the Dukes of Holstein from annexing for over a century through using the courts to protect themselves. A similar structure didn't exist in the Ottoman Empire, at best you could maybe get some places like Rhodos throwing out the Knights and make a deal of vassalage with the Sultan.
 
If it’s more a question of autonomy than outright independence—is Jewish Salonica a possibility?

Interesting idea, but can Anatolia sustain similar population densities than Italy? The climate is similar enough and the coastlines are rich, but it seems to lack farmlands such as the Po river basin.

Unless they import their food from *Ukraine and Egypt...

This is what the Byzantines did, no?
 
The HRE was far more a legal construction, while the Ottoman Empire was mostly build on military might. The fact that the HRE was primarily a legal construct meant that the city states could use courts to fight for their liberties, Hamburg pretty much kept the Dukes of Holstein from annexing for over a century through using the courts to protect themselves. A similar structure didn't exist in the Ottoman Empire, at best you could maybe get some places like Rhodos throwing out the Knights and make a deal of vassalage with the Sultan.

Roman Empire did not have institutional courts that could question rescripts of Emperor, yet Roman Empire was full of city-states and many of them were "free" as in having various states of privilege. They did not keep the status by appealing to "courts", but to Emperor and Senate.

Anatolia could and did develop city-states. They developed in 8th century BC in the Greek Aegean coastline. And then under Hellenism of 4th...3rd century, spread to such non-Greek inland areas that previously lacked them.

City-states of Anatolia collapsed under Byzantine Empire, in 6th...7th century AD. Cities did continue to exist, but mostly new fortress circuits protected a tiny fraction of formerly built-up area - a governor, a bishop, a small garrison and a modest number of merchants and artisans. The mass of middle-class absentee landowners resident in cities throughout antiquity, and of working class servicing them, disappeared from cities and must have dispersed to villages when city institutions no longer incentivized residence in city.

Under Osman Empire, cities still were small, hosting governors and a modest urban population, not broad middle class with city-state institutions.

Which PoD would allow broader redevelopment of city-states in Osman Empire?
 
Roman Empire did not have institutional courts that could question rescripts of Emperor, yet Roman Empire was full of city-states and many of them were "free" as in having various states of privilege. They did not keep the status by appealing to "courts", but to Emperor and Senate.

Anatolia could and did develop city-states. They developed in 8th century BC in the Greek Aegean coastline. And then under Hellenism of 4th...3rd century, spread to such non-Greek inland areas that previously lacked them.

City-states of Anatolia collapsed under Byzantine Empire, in 6th...7th century AD. Cities did continue to exist, but mostly new fortress circuits protected a tiny fraction of formerly built-up area - a governor, a bishop, a small garrison and a modest number of merchants and artisans. The mass of middle-class absentee landowners resident in cities throughout antiquity, and of working class servicing them, disappeared from cities and must have dispersed to villages when city institutions no longer incentivized residence in city.

Under Osman Empire, cities still were small, hosting governors and a modest urban population, not broad middle class with city-state institutions.

Which PoD would allow broader redevelopment of city-states in Osman Empire?

PoD: Mongols invasion not past Azerbaijan. Seljuks collapse for a different reason.

Before the Mongol Invasion there was an urbanisation process of newly arrived Turkmens and older Turkmen tribes.
 

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Define city states. Because City-State is usually defined as a sovereign or vassal state that consist of only one city and it's surroundings.
 
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