WI: Christmas Truce creates peace

What if the 1914 Christmas Truce continues for longer and forces the generals and leaders to sign a peace treaty at least for the Western Front?

Apart from this being a symbol of human kindness defeating greed as well as showing people power what would it mean for Western Europe at least with a LOT less dead men?
 
That would mean the governments of the blligerent nations take a welcome shot of "get real" and shudder retrospectively at what might have been.

That also means their power is in grave peril, since their armies basically mutinied. Politically this is bound to have serious repercussions on all regimes, even the democratic ones. All of a sudden European peoples snatch the right to disobey their Kings, Kaisers and Presidents.
 

Geon

Donor
Generals On Board?

For this to work, you would need a number of generals on both the Allied and German side whom had their eyes open enough to see the horrors of trench warfare and had the will to follow their troops lead and disobey their respective governments. Were there any leaders on the German or Allied side with that much wisdom and courage?

Geon
 
It's unfortunate that ultranationalism was still heavily present in both sides, and given that obedience is something that is drilled into frontline infantry, I don't think it's quite as simple as that.
 
Christmas Miracle

This is a little farfetched, but it could've happened. If for some reason the Christamas truce kept going, with troops crossing lines, fraternizing with the enemy, I could see some of the higher ups coming in person to enforce their orders. It's concievable that seeing the carnage of the front in person, and being confronted with hordes of their own troops determined to end hostilities, could've effectively given them a dose of "Oh My GOD. What the fuck are we doing?" and from there maybe to rulers, politicians, etc. Larger media covereage of the Christmas truce could lead to popular support for the movement. Certainly in countries like France and Germany it could easily lead to active revolts, their goverments would want to agree to a peace just to deal with that, if they even managed to retain power in the face of such opposition. All in all though, in order for this to work something truly remarkable has to happen. The men at the front would have to find something to overcome the forces of nationalism that led them to the war, and that just isn't something I could see happening without some kind of major POD, probably something to redefine national identities entirely. All in all, as nice as it would be I gotta call this one ASB.
 

archaeogeek

Banned
Maybe if it somehow turns into a christmas revolution; instead of Christmas carols all of a sudden you have stretches of front line starting to sing l'Internationale in choir, to the general horror of the higher ups notified of it :p
 
All in all, as nice as it would be I gotta call this one ASB.


Sadly, I must agree. :( It would be a far nicer world if WW1 had been short circuited like this, or any other way, but I can't see a few days of Christmas goodwill along the trench lines changing the minds of the governments back home.

IIRC, one of the scenarios presented in the first What If book dealt with something along these lines. The author suggested that many more casualties in the opening battles, enough to utterly overwhelm the medical systems of all the combatants, may have driven home the "lesson" of just how horrible war was with modern weapons far earlier.

When faced with train loads of maimed, crippled, dying, and dead soldiers steaming into Paris, Berlin, London, Vienna, St. Petersburg, and elsewhere, the author hoped the politicians would recoil in horror and begin arranging a general ceasefire.

Let's just say the author has a better view of mankind than I do... :(
 
Maybe if it somehow turns into a christmas revolution; instead of Christmas carols all of a sudden you have stretches of front line starting to sing l'Internationale in choir, to the general horror of the higher ups notified of it :p
All I want for Christmas is the international proletarian revolution?

That would be awesome as hell. Probably can't happen though.
 
IIRC, one of the scenarios presented in the first What If book dealt with something along these lines. The author suggested that many more casualties in the opening battles, enough to utterly overwhelm the medical systems of all the combatants, may have driven home the "lesson" of just how horrible war was with modern weapons far earlier.

When faced with train loads of maimed, crippled, dying, and dead soldiers steaming into Paris, Berlin, London, Vienna, St. Petersburg, and elsewhere, the author hoped the politicians would recoil in horror and begin arranging a general ceasefire.

Interesting thought, though. I mean, these soldiers are put opposite each other, in the opening battles not even into trenches, with quite a deadly array of weapons (even when compared to the ACW), and told to fight each other to the death.

Within little time, 80-90% should be casualties on both sides. At least, that is what I would expect in theory.

But....rather not. Only few occasions during the climaxes of months-lasting battles reach such figures.
I know, the natural instinct is rather to preserve oneself than to kill the other. But still, are they actively trying not to kill anyone? Is this a low level truce all of the time? ;)
 

archaeogeek

Banned
All I want for Christmas is the international proletarian revolution?

That would be awesome as hell. Probably can't happen though.

Won't happen, socialist leaders in France and Germany had internally made pacts so that neither group would try to go for a revolution while their countries were at war, nor would they try for an early ceasefire or the like, basically surrendering to the nationalists. Jaurès was murdered by a nationalist over his refusal to betray internationalism for something as trifling as a million germans who he saw as only French by right of conquest.
 
All I want for Christmas is the international proletarian revolution?

This. AFAIK 'leftist' elements were quite strong in the trenches on all sides in the first year of the conflict. If the Christmas truces catches on and holds on, or maybe the next day/week the shelling continues and the troops getting to thinking 'bloody hell, I was just talking to that chap yesterday, we talked about our families' than we see the French Mutinies of the later years of the war much earlier, and on both sides. This could easily lead to very serious business. Especially if the socialists in the various nations decide to break their pledges of nationalism and return to the call for the international proletariat. Even if there aren't revolutions back home, having both the troops and politicians at home saying the war is foolish...

I've always wandered about a WI of the Christmas Truce. Perhaps not lasting peace, but certainly more mutinies. Lots of interesting butterflies and possible avenues of divergence here.
 
To make this happen you'd need two big things:
1) Exceptionally charismatic types, probably junior officers and senior NCOs with the will to mutiny AND,
2) Hardcore support from the Pope and the Catholic Church---and probably the Church of England as well, and at least silence from the Lutheran church. The Catholic church in Europe in that era was exponentially more influential than it is now, and very influential in France and the Central Powers.

If you had that, plus a fair bit of luck and maybe a somewhat sympathetic media, you might be able to carry it off without ASB intervention.
 

archaeogeek

Banned
The Catholic church, in France, only had a limited amount of power and the Pope himself had relatively little influence in France since the concordate of 1801 (it might be argued since Francis I, but ultramontanism was not exactly powerful in France; in the national assembly, there were more socialists than right-wing "ultramontains" combined. Although, true, the presidency of the republic was often more conservative than the presidency of the council (the french prime minister) and the national assembly.
 
To make this happen you'd need two big things:
1) Exceptionally charismatic types, probably junior officers and senior NCOs with the will to mutiny AND,
2) Hardcore support from the Pope and the Catholic Church---and probably the Church of England as well, and at least silence from the Lutheran church. The Catholic church in Europe in that era was exponentially more influential than it is now, and very influential in France and the Central Powers.

If you had that, plus a fair bit of luck and maybe a somewhat sympathetic media, you might be able to carry it off without ASB intervention.



Some hope. The Churches on both sides had sold out to the state in the worst way (see JC Squire's famous poem), and as for the media - which basically meant newspapers then - they were whipping up hysteria round the clock.

It's a beautiful dream, but I'm afraid it's a no hoper.
 
Well one sure way would be...

"Our Lady of Fátima" appears in France instead of Portugal, on December 25, 1914 instead of May 13, 1917, and appearing to 3 (or better yet 30, 300 or 3000) French, German and British soldiers instead of three Portuguese children.

I know, divine intervention = ultimate ASB, but it sure would have been great wouldn't it?
 
Well one sure way would be...

"Our Lady of Fátima" appears in France instead of Portugal, on December 25, 1914 instead of May 13, 1917, and appearing to 3 (or better yet 30, 300 or 3000) French, German and British soldiers instead of three Portuguese children.

I know,divine intervention = ultimate ASB, but it sure would have been great wouldn't it?


Definite ASB.

the only way i see this working is if....aww hell i cant see it happening.

although...

if the Truces last say a day longer the men remember them.
then in '15 it happens again
then we get a Christmas Armistice
 
Ignoring the plausibility of this for a moment to focus on the effects, strangling the war in its infancy would mean both France and the UK aren't as heavily taxed in terms of men and money, the Dominions aren't as... respected after the war, Japan has nothing to feel betrayed about, Russia has no revolution (as we know it), AH stays together longer and Germany doesn't have a shitastic postwar era, meaning no Hitler. Life is better for pretty much everyone except the poor souls under European domination in Africa and Asia.

It's unfortunate this falls under the realm of implausibility. :(
 
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