WI :Christian worship collapses in the USA over the 20th century. What replaces it?

[Exostrike]

So for whatever reason Christianity collapses in the united states over the 20th century, excluding atheism and the worship of capitalism (like in the OTL), what replaces it?

I could see it going from an existing religion like Islam, Judaism, Hinduism or Buddhism, though to more eccentric possibilities like mysticism, new age cults and indigenous inspired animism/shamanism.

What could you imagine?

 

[Resurgam]

Well, we need to know the why and how. Christianity is so firmly rooted as part of America its collapse is going to affect the country and stem from something happening to it.

 

[Lalli]

Totally ASB. Christianity or any other religion is not thing which just suddenly disappear/collapse. Even French radicals during 1790's and communists tried that but failed totally ending make religion evne more relevant.

Perhaps USA could develope more secular but I can't see Chsitianity just disappearing.

 

[Kerney]

Only way I could see it failing was if the response to the Great Depression was not FDR but a Fascism, wrapped in the cross and the flag being brutal, as in Stalin/Hitler brutal and the forces that stop it and setting the narrative for history afterward being explicitly not Christian probably secular.

It would spawn the successor but not be the successor.

Something or more likely several somethings would arise out of the alienation and some of those somethings would fail spectacularly. I don't think it would be an established Religion like Islam or Hinduism, but be based on the character of each region, with what is dominant in Appalachia being. different from New Mexico and both being different from Washington State. It would most likely have some strong folk/new agey/shamanistic aspects but those terms would shed their negative cultural context as they became respectable.

Something like this has happened on a tiny scale among Native Americans in response to defeat in the 1870s and came in two flavors and I think the terms (memory of 15 year old anthropology classes) are something like revivalist and and reformist.

Revivalist promises a return to the good old days, baseball and apple pie and a chicken in every pot and fail when it scares the powers that be and can't deliver. The NA example would be the Ghost Dance movement.

The reformist movement are more quiet and attempt to address the needs of the individuals and is an attempt to address those needs and create meaning on an individual level. The NA example would be the NA Church, which popularized peyote and exists to this day. Some non religious examples of this type of behavior would be Alcoholics Anonymous.

Obviously, this is not likely. But it is my attempt to meet the OP's requirements.

 

[pattersonautobody]

So for whatever reason Christianity collapses in the united states over the 20th century, excluding atheism and the worship of capitalism (like in the OTL), what replaces it?

I could see it going from an existing religion like Islam, Judaism, Hinduism or Buddhism, though to more eccentric possibilities like mysticism, new age cults and indigenous inspired animism/shamanism.

What could you imagine?

A crass materialistic society where relativism dictates everyone has their own t ruth.

 

[Admiral Jellicoe]

If you follow the UK model then the answer is a combination of nothing/vague sense of ill-defined sense of the spiritual according to social attitudes survey. UK active christian worship now barely accounts 10% of the population and falling. Probably only sustained by migrant populations in the main.

I can't remember who - possibly Macauley or Carlyle - said that the success of the Church of England rests on its appreciation of the amount of religion that the average Englishman can stomach, which is not very much.

Difficult to say whether or not it is still spot on or has misjudged matters somewhere along the way

 

[Arkenfolm]

I could see it going from an existing religion like Islam, Judaism, Hinduism or Buddhism, though to more eccentric possibilities like mysticism, new age cults and indigenous inspired animism/shamanism.

It wouldn't be another religion since that sort of mass conversion has practically never happened in modern times. South Korea is probably the sole exception but that's because in addition to Buddhism/other faiths discrediting themselves, there was a century of Christian missionaries in South Korea, elements of government support, and it was promoted by the United States who of dominated South Korea. No faith could plausibly do that in the US.

Other examples like post-Soviet Russia do have a lot of weird Christian-themed cults and bizarre neopagan groups ranging from Neo-Nazi sorts to Hindu occultists to "ancient Slavs were the original communists", but all of those groups or even the more mainstream neopagans/Rodnovers are just a small portion of society. It probably would be like that in the US, with New Age sects, American nationalism, plastic shaman-y takes on Native American religions, etc.

But the dominant religion, just like in Russia, would be no religion at all really. It wouldn't be atheism, but instead a belief that there is a higher power, Jesus was a great man but maybe not God, etc.

It would most likely have some strong folk/new agey/shamanistic aspects but those terms would shed their negative cultural context as they became respectable.

I don't know about that, especially since these religions would be at each other's throats since IIRC some new age religions have sued each other over plagiarism and IP theft and others are known to have plagiarized from public domain spiritualism work and older proto-new age stuff.

Some non religious examples of this type of behavior would be Alcoholics Anonymous.

Alcoholics Anonymous/similar 12 Step programs and has been ruled in courts as religious in nature since it requires you believe in a higher power. So it would fall under the sort of vague spirituality a lot of otherwise secular people hold to.

 

[JohnBull]

Lapsed Christianity will replace it.

 

[The Byronic Hero]

Hasn't Social Media effectively replaced religion with the cult of self and self-made stars? It's unnerving how fanatical people I know are about "celebrities."

 

[Catspoke]

So for whatever reason Christianity collapses in the united states over the 20th century, excluding atheism and the worship of capitalism (like in the OTL), what replaces it?

I could see it going from an existing religion like Islam, Judaism, Hinduism or Buddhism, though to more eccentric possibilities like mysticism, new age cults and indigenous inspired animism/shamanism.

What could you imagine?

Islam, by just population demographics, like in France.

Non or weak religion advanced societies demographics is poor, easy to replace. (i.e. Christianity went from a semi persecuted Jewish sect of a few thousand to the majority religion of the roman empire largely through demographics for example)

Of course there are still counters, Amish (Christians) have high population growth. And surviving rump Christianity is likely to become stronger, more serious, even if smaller. i.e. there are a small segment of the Catholic population that takes things more serious these days, veils at church, large families.

 

[Kerney]

I don't know about that, especially since these religions would be at each other's throats since IIRC some new age religions have sued each other over plagiarism and IP theft and others are known to have plagiarized from public domain spiritualism work and older proto-new age stuff.

It's funny, when I was in my teens and twenties I hung out with a lot of people , more on the Pagan/Shamanistic (sometimes plastic Shaman type) side and found them laid back, friendly and very utilitarian and almost with a do it yourself attitude and have sensed this in other things I've come across reading about some past religions who genuinely didn't care (unsually) if you were 'stealing'. These are the people I had in mind that could easily blend in with folk tradition.

On one hand, most of those beliefs are going nowhere long term. On the other hand, some things about Jesus, Francis of Assisi, Lao Tzu would be totally cool would be totally cool with some of the hippies and came from a simular fermanent.

Your image, and I could see it, coming from a different viewpoint, is the place of pay to play spirituality, 300 dollar crystals and workshops with with whatever wonder dude. I think we meant two different things.

 

[stephen the barbarian]

the Unification Church or Mormonism are good candidates since as Christian heresies it would be easy for people to join while keeping a large number of their old traditions.

 

[Porsenna]

Nationalism. I guess Americans would continue to believe in a divinely mandated Manifest Destiny, just stop actively practising Christianity. You might get an earlier political swing to the right.

 

[Thisisnotausername]

The most likely answer by far is nothing. Sure, you might only see No Religion hit a plurality or whatever, with large and thriving populations of Muslims and Buddhists and neo-pagans or what-have-you ensuring a majority of the country adheres to some kind of formal religion, but it's very unlikely any of these alternatives would be able to beat out the others to assume the kind of hegemonic role that Christianity enjoys in the OTL US.

 

[Peg Leg Pom]

Why would anything replace it? What you're describing is essentially what's happened in Britain in the 20th century. People will be nominally Christian at best but generally ignore the church other than for weddings, christening and funerals.

 

[mattep74]

So for whatever reason Christianity collapses in the united states over the 20th century, excluding atheism and the worship of capitalism (like in the OTL), what replaces it?

I could see it going from an existing religion like Islam, Judaism, Hinduism or Buddhism, though to more eccentric possibilities like mysticism, new age cults and indigenous inspired animism/shamanism.

What could you imagine?

If the federal government act more like how it was done in sweden it will be seen as just another lobby organisation that nobody really listen to.

 

[Arkenfolm]

It's funny, when I was in my teens and twenties I hung out with a lot of people , more on the Pagan/Shamanistic (sometimes plastic Shaman type) side and found them laid back, friendly and very utilitarian and almost with a do it yourself attitude and have sensed this in other things I've come across reading about some past religions who genuinely didn't care (unsually) if you were 'stealing'. These are the people I had in mind that could easily blend in with folk tradition.

Yeah, some of them are, I knew a guy like that who was pretty cool. But I wonder how much of that is just personality?

Your image, and I could see it, coming from a different viewpoint, is the place of pay to play spirituality, 300 dollar crystals and workshops with with whatever wonder dude. I think we meant two different things.

That's more like what I was referring to. Expensive crystals, ripoff seminars, weird shit like the "Ramtha" cult where an Ancient Lemurian guy speaks through some random woman, white guys who claim to be Native American and get people injured/killed in "totally authentic" sweathouse rituals, that sort of thing. I think if Christianity in the US totally collapsed you'd see a lot more of that because as L. Ron Hubbard said, starting a religion is a great way to get rich.

 

[Jellico]

All praise to Washington. Verily did he chop down the cherry tree and did show his moral rectitude in readily admitting so.

 

[Polish Eagle]

Islam, by just population demographics, like in France.

Non or weak religion advanced societies demographics is poor, easy to replace. (i.e. Christianity went from a semi persecuted Jewish sect of a few thousand to the majority religion of the roman empire largely through demographics for example)

Of course there are still counters, Amish (Christians) have high population growth. And surviving rump Christianity is likely to become stronger, more serious, even if smaller. i.e. there are a small segment of the Catholic population that takes things more serious these days, veils at church, large families.

Source? I wasn't aware that the Celtic/Italian/German population of Europe was effectively replaced by a Semitic/Greek population.

 

[Catspoke]

Source? I wasn't aware that the Celtic/Italian/German population of Europe was effectively replaced by a Semitic/Greek population.

The Book was the triumph of Christianity by Rodney Stark. (I have that book along with "the case for the crusades")

His premise was that Christianity just out reproduced other religions. Some of the reasons listed.

1) Higher birth rate (the Catholic thing).
2) The fact that the Romans would often just abandon their infants on the hill side, especially culturally unwanted girls. Girls, unlike men needed numbers to reproduce.
3) Christian society tended to the sick more, which often just needed basic care to survive.
4) Missionary conversion of people was an important part of that Christian rise, but not the most important part.
5) Often a Christian female would marry a non Christian male and the descendants would be Christian.
6) The Romans were religious tolerant (Christians were willing to pay taxes to Rome) and there was less persecution than Christian mythology might lead people to believe.
7) Christianity was popular amongst the upper classes and so more culturally influential than perhaps assumed.

I get what your saying though about the impossibility of a effective replacement by a a Semitic/Greek population. Never questioned that when I read it. Perhaps small amounts of Missionary conversion was the necessary seed for expansion in a lot of places. I suspect #5,#6,#7 was a big part of it, people saying well the important people were Christian around here so I will go along even though I am not really practicing, just swept a long in the trend, vs actually getting baptized and practicing.