WI: China does not unify under the Qin Dynasty

tehskyman

Banned
You heard me WI the Qin during the warring states period didnt manage to unify china? Say Qin Shi Huang died say from illness or something. What would happen and what would the ramifications for china and the world be?
 
You heard me WI the Qin during the warring states period didnt manage to unify china? Say Qin Shi Huang died say from illness or something. What would happen and what would the ramifications for china and the world be?

some other guy unifies it later, the warring states was just one of the many times China was divided up into many warring factions only to be unified and then disunited again and again.
 
some other guy unifies it later, the warring states was just one of the many times China was divided up into many warring factions only to be unified and then disunited again and again.

Yes, but Shi Huangdi set the precedent. Perhaps it could develop as Europe did after Rome without the unifying Qin.

Not saying it's likely, but the cyclical unification is not destiny.
 
Yes, but Shi Huangdi set the precedent. Perhaps it could develop as Europe did after Rome without the unifying Qin.

Not saying it's likely, but the cyclical unification is not destiny.

Seconded. It's also worth noting that the Qin didn't control even close to what we know now as "Han China" - different peoples, including the present-day Thais and Vietnamese, inhabited Guangxi, Sichuan, Yunnan, Manchuria, Hainan, and a host of other places.

Cheers,
Ganesha
 
Do we have any intention of paying credence to the idea that the core area of China was inherently more easily politically unified than that of Rome?
 
Do we have any intention of paying credence to the idea that the core area of China was inherently more easily politically unified than that of Rome?

Broad, flat, fertile plains are inherently easier to conquer and control than mountainous peninsulas. Geography isn't totally destiny (see Germany's fragmentation), but it's a darn hard factor.
 
That's actually pretty likely given the PoD; FWIG in previous conversations on this, with this situation playing out, China's most likely to unite under Chu.
If Qin does not unite China, Chu probably is the best contender. But there needs to be a more adequate explanation of why Qin does not throw its energies into uniting China later, because it already has advantages in manpower, geography, and governance by the time 227 BCE rolls around. By the time Jing Ke is dispatched, remember that both Han and Zhao have already been conquered, and I don't think Qin is weak enough to give up these two states without a fight.

Also, there's the problem that Qi, the third-strongest state after Qin and Chu, did not feel threatened by Qin's rise, and thus did not fight Qin until the very end. On the other hand, the rise of Chu could prompt Qi to drop its inactivity and ally with Qin. Of course, Chu and Qi have allied before, so they could also do that again.
 
On a side note, it's ironic that while the Spring and Autumn Period is filled with stories of states uniting against Qin, it's Qin who ultimately defeats them all.
 

RousseauX

Donor
If Qin does not unite China, Chu probably is the best contender. But there needs to be a more adequate explanation of why Qin does not throw its energies into uniting China later, because it already has advantages in manpower, geography, and governance by the time 227 BCE rolls around. By the time Jing Ke is dispatched, remember that both Han and Zhao have already been conquered, and I don't think Qin is weak enough to give up these two states without a fight.

Also, there's the problem that Qi, the third-strongest state after Qin and Chu, did not feel threatened by Qin's rise, and thus did not fight Qin until the very end. On the other hand, the rise of Chu could prompt Qi to drop its inactivity and ally with Qin. Of course, Chu and Qi have allied before, so they could also do that again.
If Chu unifies China instead of the Chin the Chinese imperial government will probably be less centralized and lack the sort of institutional tradition that Qin legalism embedded into the imperial system. It will probably end up being more "moralistic" and act like an European government in the sense that it respects some sort of law (whether moral or religious) above itself when historically Chinese emperors were not constrained by any such rules.
 
If Chu unifies China instead of the Chin the Chinese imperial government will probably be less centralized and lack the sort of institutional tradition that Qin legalism embedded into the imperial system. It will probably end up being more "moralistic" and act like an European government in the sense that it respects some sort of law (whether moral or religious) above itself when historically Chinese emperors were not constrained by any such rules.

This would make for a very different China -- and an interesting TL at that :D
 
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