WI:Charles the Bold Isn't Killed

As it says on the tin. Does this mean Burgundy survives? What about France and the Hapsburgs? Maybe, and this is a big if, Burgundy becomes a colonial power? What if?
 
So many many butterflies. For example you're probably not going to see Hapsburg Spain as Philip the Handsome will be a less attractive marriage prospect for Joanna and the sequence of deaths that made her heir was very unlikely. That means the Hapsburgs remain Austrian. As for what the House of Burgundy can achieve who knows. They might be able to recreate Lotharingia or they might get squashed between the HRE and France.
 
So many many butterflies. For example you're probably not going to see Hapsburg Spain as Philip the Handsome will be a less attractive marriage prospect for Joanna and the sequence of deaths that made her heir was very unlikely. That means the Hapsburgs remain Austrian. As for what the House of Burgundy can achieve who knows. They might be able to recreate Lotharingia or they might get squashed between the HRE and France.

Hell thats way to far in the future. If Charles the Bold survives then Mary might not even marry Maximilian. Then there would be no Philip the Handsome or Margaret. Even if Mary still marries Maximilian who know's what would happen next. Would Mary still die in a horse accident? Would Charles, with his heir married to the Emperor's heir, manage to create a Kingdom of Burgundy or whatever the proposed Kingdom would be called? Would France still acquire Burgundy itself?
 
Well, of Charles os not killed, he is at least very seriously defeated and prisoner. This is anyway a catastrophy for his burgundian principality.

He has no army and no money left and is unable to defend. Alive, a defeated or worse a prisoner Charles is more a liability than an asset for Burgundy.

Louis XI will be probably invade on any formal legal pretext or force some kind of marriage on Charles' daughter Mary.
 
Well, of Charles os not killed, he is at least very seriously defeated and prisoner. This is anyway a catastrophy for his burgundian principality.

He has no army and no money left and is unable to defend. Alive, a defeated or worse a prisoner Charles is more a liability than an asset for Burgundy.

Louis XI will be probably invade on any formal legal pretext or force some kind of marriage on Charles' daughter Mary.
I think Mary could marry Rene II of Lorraine..in order to guarantee peace between Lorraine and Burgundy since his wife Jeanne d'Harcourt is barren and they had been married as children.
 
What's the PoD here? Does Charles avoid the mess that led to his demise OTL, or does he just survive the various disastrous defeats at the hands of the Swiss-led coalition he was fighting?

It's kind of a significant question, because Charles was nearly 100% convinced he could win until the moment he died. His belief that he could never be wrong was one of his greatest character flaws. He would likely continue fighting until he either gets killed or imprisoned, both of which would lead to similar results as OTL. The marriage between Mary and Maximilian would likely still be pursued in this scenario, as Charles would be in desperate need of a strong ally like the Emperor, and agreeing to it on the Emperor's terms might even be a requirement to save the Burgundian state to begin with.
 
Yes, Charles sometimes strikes me as someone who suffered from a degree of hubris. Anyway an outcome, where Charles isn't killed, but captured might be slightly better, though it might also postpone the matter, since he still hasn't a male heir, which he needed for many (not all) of his French possessions, but not his imperial ones. Also Burgundy would be in desperate need for a powerful ally, so emperor Frederick III might achieve a marriage without having to grant any crown (unless he indirectly wants to aggrandize his dynasty, but then it would something like king of Frisia/Friesland or Brabant and not Lotharingia or Burgundy).

Also the funds required to either ransom their duke or continue the struggle, will make for an increasingly displeased Estates General. Even IOTL when duchess Mary the Rich succeeded her father, she was basically forced to accept certain demands from the Estates (even though the all accepted her as their duchess).
 
What's the PoD here? Does Charles avoid the mess that led to his demise OTL, or does he just survive the various disastrous defeats at the hands of the Swiss-led coalition he was fighting?

It's kind of a significant question, because Charles was nearly 100% convinced he could win until the moment he died. His belief that he could never be wrong was one of his greatest character flaws. He would likely continue fighting until he either gets killed or imprisoned, both of which would lead to similar results as OTL. The marriage between Mary and Maximilian would likely still be pursued in this scenario, as Charles would be in desperate need of a strong ally like the Emperor, and agreeing to it on the Emperor's terms might even be a requirement to save the Burgundian state to begin with.

Coming to think of it, Charles would have to avoid the whole mess in the first place.
 
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