WI Champlain befriends Iroqouis instead of Huron and Algonquins?

raharris1973

Gone Fishin'
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The French had greater compatibility with and in general relied more on Amerindian allies than the English. However, the French had a hostile relationship with probably the most advanced and strongest Amerindian grouping, the Iroquois.

This ensured the English powerful Amerindian allies in the 1700s.

The French-Iroquois animosity allegedly links back to Champlain aiding an enemy of the Iroquois during his first visit to the St. Lawrence.

What if Champlain allied the Frenhc with the Iroquois instead?
 
Can't help much but that is a very interesting part of history, too often forgotten about in France.

Top of my head, I seem to remember the Iroquois being further away from Montréal and Québec while the allies were more like next door neighbours? Weren't the iroquois more down south toward the great lakes?
 
Can't help much but that is a very interesting part of history, too often forgotten about in France.

Top of my head, I seem to remember the Iroquois being further away from Montréal and Québec while the allies were more like next door neighbours? Weren't the iroquois more down south toward the great lakes?

pretty much, the whole thing would necessitate to go through Huron hostile territories to reach the Iroquois in the first place. The only POD I can think off would be an early Iroquois victory in their long war against the Hurons that would lead to the former to destroy the Hurons and to occupy territories that would naturally put them in contact with the french.
 

raharris1973

Gone Fishin'
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pretty much, the whole thing would necessitate to go through Huron hostile territories to reach the Iroquois in the first place. The only POD I can think off would be an early Iroquois victory in their long war against the Hurons that would lead to the former to destroy the Hurons and to occupy territories that would naturally put them in contact with the french.


That might be the ticket exactly
 

ben0628

Banned
There'd be no point. The Iroquois are already Dutch allies by the time Champlain arrives on the scene. Making alliances with the Iroquois enemies is really the best option.
 
The distribution of indigenous peoples would need to be radically different for this to work. Perhaps if the Hurons could become an ally people of the Iroquois, or something?
 
There'd be no point. The Iroquois are already Dutch allies by the time Champlain arrives on the scene. Making alliances with the Iroquois enemies is really the best option.

It was the other way around. Champlain founded Québec in 1608, and Hudson came to the New Netherland region the following year. The Dutch-Iroquois alliance was formed in the 1620s.
 
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Didn't the Iroquois have territory that expanded into much of western New York? This could mean that lands controlled by the French expand that deep. Similarly, the Huron controlled southern Ontario, so because of the enmity between the Huron and the French that would likely result, it could mean that France does not have control over that region.
 

raharris1973

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Didn't the Iroquois have territory that expanded into much of western New York? This could mean that lands controlled by the French expand that deep. Similarly, the Huron controlled southern Ontario, so because of the enmity between the Huron and the French that would likely result, it could mean that France does not have control over that region.

Or more likely it means the more powerful Franco-Iroquois alliance crushes the Huron (and resistant Algonquins) than the Huron were crushed in OTL. The Franco-Iroquois powerhouse could extend French trading and fortress networks more early and securely over Ontario, the Great Lakes and Ohio Valley, all the way up to the Hudson's Bay.
 
Probably the best option is a late 16th century POD where the Iroquois migrate into the OTL Montreal area. The area had been abandoned by the St. Lawrence Iroquoians around that time, and if there was some pressure from farther South it could easily push the Iroquois to migrate.

Either that or maybe one of the many Iroquois war parties that used the St. Lawrence as a war path could run into Champlain and ally him before he meets those the Iroquois were attcking...
 
Or more likely it means the more powerful Franco-Iroquois alliance crushes the Huron (and resistant Algonquins) than the Huron were crushed in OTL. The Franco-Iroquois powerhouse could extend French trading and fortress networks more early and securely over Ontario, the Great Lakes and Ohio Valley, all the way up to the Hudson's Bay.

I think the English would ally with the Huron and that would mean southern Ontario is English earlier than IOTL.
 
One idea is that France could colonize OTL New York instead of the Dutch and English. Recall that Verrazzano, serving France, was the first European to visit New York Harbor.
 
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