WI: Cham settlement in the Philippines

Is it possible for the Chams from Champa to resettle in the West Coast of the Philippines before the Age of Exploration? I think the Chams could resettle in Ilocos and Palawan, could the Chams settling in the Philippines could boost the fledgling Kingdoms in the Philippines to form nations later on...how could we have the Chams migrate to the Philippines like what they did to North Sumatra(Aceh) and Cambodia.
 
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I don't believe there is anything that would prevent that. I don't know of any obvious POD though.
One of the possible POD's is having the Chams who migrated to Kelantan migrate to OTL Philippines in the 14th Century when the Vietnamese are grabbing Vietnamese cities.
 

katchen

Banned
That would be great! Palawan is STILL relatively underpopulated. And if the Chams settled Palawan, nothing would likely stop them from settling on Borneo either. Checking Wikipedia, I found that there was a kingdom on Borneo named Po-ni that likely controlled Palawan and which the Chams would need to conquer. In fact Po-ni (Brunei) controlled the Philippines by the late 16th Century and had settled Manila. The Spanish had to conquer it from them in the 1570s.

So if the Chams could conquer and migrate to Po-ni, they could not only conquer the Philippines but the North and East of Borneo as well. They would have no reason to adopt Islam. Spain would either be butterflied out of East Asia or wind up conquering Taiwan instead of the Philippines.

And if Spain was butterflied out of East Asia, the Ming Dynasty collapses sooner, probably as a result of Hideyoshi's invasion of Korea. Because according to 1493, the Ming became very dependent on the Mexican-Peruvian silver trade to pay their army and civil servants as their currency inflated and inflated. If the Ming fell some time in the 1500s, the Manchus are not together yet under Nuranci and Dorgon and someone else founds the next Chinese Dynasty.

Of course the Vietnamese Nguyen Kingdom (Capital, Hue') could also conquer and settle on the Philippines and Borneo instead of the Cham and might well be motivated to if the Cham or the Khmer or the Thai prove a bit stronger. The Vietnamese are very short of arable land until the French give them the key to the Mekong Delta in the mid 1800s and with the right leadership might be looking to expand.
 
That would be great! Palawan is STILL relatively underpopulated. And if the Chams settled Palawan, nothing would likely stop them from settling on Borneo either. Checking Wikipedia, I found that there was a kingdom on Borneo named Po-ni that likely controlled Palawan and which the Chams would need to conquer. In fact Po-ni (Brunei) controlled the Philippines by the late 16th Century and had settled Manila. The Spanish had to conquer it from them in the 1570s.

So if the Chams could conquer and migrate to Po-ni, they could not only conquer the Philippines but the North and East of Borneo as well. They would have no reason to adopt Islam. Spain would either be butterflied out of East Asia or wind up conquering Taiwan instead of the Philippines.

And if Spain was butterflied out of East Asia, the Ming Dynasty collapses sooner, probably as a result of Hideyoshi's invasion of Korea. Because according to 1493, the Ming became very dependent on the Mexican-Peruvian silver trade to pay their army and civil servants as their currency inflated and inflated. If the Ming fell some time in the 1500s, the Manchus are not together yet under Nuranci and Dorgon and someone else founds the next Chinese Dynasty.

Of course the Vietnamese Nguyen Kingdom (Capital, Hue') could also conquer and settle on the Philippines and Borneo instead of the Cham and might well be motivated to if the Cham or the Khmer or the Thai prove a bit stronger. The Vietnamese are very short of arable land until the French give them the key to the Mekong Delta in the mid 1800s and with the right leadership might be looking to expand.


But the Bruneians controlled Luzon/Selurong as a fief because Luzon is ruled by a cadet of the Bolkiah dynasty which was forced upon by Bolkiah and due to a dynastic marriage which I believe crippled the Island and aside from that a part of the Bolkiah dynasty ruling Selurong/Luzon sold it to the Spanish, I think a better alternative would be a Tondo-Nguyen dynasty which I think will work better for Luzon because they will have a policy approaching China and Vietnam which I believe will better the trade links between Luzon/Selurong and the Sinosphere.

I don't think that the Chams need to invade the Philippines in order for them to migrate there, they could be invited by the Tondo/Selurong to settle Ilocos and the Sultanate of Sulu could invite the Chams to settle Palawan.
 

katchen

Banned
Why would the Sultanate of Sulu invite kaffir Buddhist Chams to settle in his Muslim sultanate?

Although maybe they could convert to Islam.
 
Why would the Sultanate of Sulu invite kaffir Buddhist Chams to settle in his Muslim sultanate?

Although maybe they could convert to Islam.


There were already muslims in Champa even before the Europeans arrived in South East Asia...I think the Sulu Sultan could invite the Muslim Chams to settle Palawan.

Palawan is basically the "Silesia" of Sulu, it was taken by Brunei from Sulu before the conquest of Manila.
 
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Alternatively when the Khmers destroy Cham power, have them pursue an aggresive policy of conversion to Buddhism. This would create the push factor and have the Sultanate of Sulu encourage them to settle within his kingdom.
 
Alternatively when the Khmers destroy Cham power, have them pursue an aggresive policy of conversion to Buddhism. This would create the push factor and have the Sultanate of Sulu encourage them to settle within his kingdom.
So basically we just need Khmer Empire to recover its power and start to move to annex/vassalize Champa and maybe partition it with Vietnam in this scenario the Mekong delta would remain Khmer land.
 
We could do or have a rump Cham state that emphasises their Hindu origins and expels their Islamic population afterwards? After all the Chams in Vietnam are Hindu and the Cham in Cambodia are Muslim... so this is another POD.

Although I suspect they may go south to the Malay sultanates, though if it is your TL move them where you will. After
 
Alternatively when the Khmers destroy Cham power, have them pursue an aggresive policy of conversion to Buddhism. This would create the push factor and have the Sultanate of Sulu encourage them to settle within his kingdom.
Yeah...the Cham refugees did not consider the islands at the other side of the sea as a refuge..
 
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