WI/Challenge: A Chinese pirate sailed away?

http://www.cnn.com/2007/LIVING/worklife/08/27/woman.pirate/index.html

Good background there on the subject at hand.

Curious question -- what if, instead of negotiating an amnesty, she had decided to simply sail away?

Points of arrival:

West coast of N. America in 1811 (but why?)
Indonesia
West Indies
South Africa (why go so far??)

Or, for real fun, find a reason why she would have shown up on the European Atlantic Coast circa 1812 with over 500 highly experienced pirate ships?
 
I'd first ask the question how she's going to do that. Traditional Chinese piracy functioned a lot like the traditional European kind, depending heavily on coastal communities and land bases. If she could get wealth, safety and amnesty for her followers, why would she turn down the offer? I can't see her invested in a pirate romanticism. Maybe political reasons? If she were a blood enemy of the dynasty, maybe.

Her ships are many, but mostly comparatively small. That's not a bad thing for pirates, but ahe's going to have to take on her landboud supporters and the family members of her crews, as well as supplies. A Pacific crossing is unlikely. That leaves Japan (why would anyone?) Korea or Annam (possible, but same problem as at home, minus the support - she's not powerful enough to take on an organised government), a variety of local islands, the Philippines, Indonesia, Melanesia, Malaysia or Australia. That is being generous in terms of range. In most of these places she will come up against European powers and that is most likely something she will want to avoid (though if she tries, she's likely to win because the Dutch, Spanish and Brits are currently otherwise occupied, so her timing is excellent). I think the most likely scenario, id she wants to take the risk, is her going somewhere with an established Chinese population and taking over, not necesarily government, but the parts of it that concern her. I can imagine her fleet standing to off some smaller Philippine port to 'negotiate'. But I'm afraid her more likely bets are Hainan, Taiwan, or the Ryukyus. Control of these places was largely nominal.
 
I'd first ask the question how she's going to do that. Traditional Chinese piracy functioned a lot like the traditional European kind, depending heavily on coastal communities and land bases. If she could get wealth, safety and amnesty for her followers, why would she turn down the offer? I can't see her invested in a pirate romanticism. Maybe political reasons? If she were a blood enemy of the dynasty, maybe.

Her ships are many, but mostly comparatively small. That's not a bad thing for pirates, but ahe's going to have to take on her landboud supporters and the family members of her crews, as well as supplies. A Pacific crossing is unlikely. That leaves Japan (why would anyone?) Korea or Annam (possible, but same problem as at home, minus the support - she's not powerful enough to take on an organised government), a variety of local islands, the Philippines, Indonesia, Melanesia, Malaysia or Australia. That is being generous in terms of range. In most of these places she will come up against European powers and that is most likely something she will want to avoid (though if she tries, she's likely to win because the Dutch, Spanish and Brits are currently otherwise occupied, so her timing is excellent). I think the most likely scenario, id she wants to take the risk, is her going somewhere with an established Chinese population and taking over, not necesarily government, but the parts of it that concern her. I can imagine her fleet standing to off some smaller Philippine port to 'negotiate'. But I'm afraid her more likely bets are Hainan, Taiwan, or the Ryukyus. Control of these places was largely nominal.


Hmm

of the 1500 ships she had (which was larger than the chinese navy of the time) some were fast interceptors, but most were actually captured merchant vessels that she later armed and used as heavies.

Against an assembled British fleet, she'd be toast - but like you say, the time is excellent.

As to why - I'm not quite there yet, buy a blood fued or just a stubborn refusal on Chinese authority part to grant her amnesty... in OTL, she took it and settled down with a husband and gambling casino... I'm guessing without it, she'd start looking for alternative lifestyles as she aged -- piracy is a youthful occupation after all. Hence, she might very well sail off with some percentage of the fleet and find herself a home somewhere.

if Taiwan is possible, then India would be as well, yes?

I dunno - don't know enough of the times to really do it justice, but thought it might be interesting if an unallied naval force of significant strength appeared on the scene somewhere.

I do agree a pacific crossing is unlikely - although a slight fluke shows a warming trend right around that period I think? if so, a northern route to alaska and south works, but what the heck is she gonna do in Cali at that time? Also, would she enough know enough geography to know it's there?
Very unlikely.

I think S. Africa might make a lot of sense, and Dutch Indies even more.
 
Hmm

of the 1500 ships she had (which was larger than the chinese navy of the time) some were fast interceptors, but most were actually captured merchant vessels that she later armed and used as heavies.

Against an assembled British fleet, she'd be toast - but like you say, the time is excellent.

Even a merchant ship is a comparatively small hull compared to the monsters that navies could field. But the main point is, they weren't built for Pacific crossings. Not that she couldn't have tried, but I don't think the outcome would have been positive.


if Taiwan is possible, then India would be as well, yes?

In strictly nautiocal terms, anywhere along the major trade routes from the Sinosphere is. But India is a bad idea because unlike most of the nearer targets, it has large and effective states that control territory and the British to provide naval muscle. India at this point is one of the hardest targets out there. The British goverment would react very decisively to any such threat, though they may try to buy her off rather than fight if possible. Of course she might do that deal, which has the potential to get interesting down the road. A Chinese expat population in the Madras Presidency that provides generations of lascars to the country trade and navy?


I do agree a pacific crossing is unlikely - although a slight fluke shows a warming trend right around that period I think? if so, a northern route to alaska and south works, but what the heck is she gonna do in Cali at that time? Also, would she enough know enough geography to know it's there?
Very unlikely.

She's well placed to know about all aspects of the sea trade in her part of the world, which means she'd also know about the Spanish trade with the Philippines. Very likely she's got a pretty good idea of where and what the Americas are. She'd probably also know that it's very far away and not really worthwhile.


I think S. Africa might make a lot of sense, and Dutch Indies even more.


Agreed. Though imagine Northern Australia...
 
S. Africa would likely be well defended too, unfortunately.

N. Australia makes sense, but I couldn't see how it would take off from there (1800 is a little too recent for my hobbies :) )

However, back on the Americas front for minute...

Suppose the point of aggravation was in the Chinese authorities minds a little earlier (in the terms of a handful of years or less) and forced her into into a blood fued, causing a complete spurning of China amongst all her crews.

Suppose she then sailed south along the coast (n would be Nippon, cold waters, loooong pacific sail (also west) and not much in the way of civilization on the west coast of the Americas although S. America Gold might draw her) raiding as she went for food/water. In India she offers the fleet as a mercenarial fleet to the British, who, typically arrogant, offend her in saying no (laughed at in the face).

So she asks around about who the British don't like. In India and points west/south.

She eventually finds her way over to France (or Spain? maybe not either), who gleefully sign her fleet up as Privateers with letters of Marque to raid rival shipping (ideal for fast little chinese ships).

Then suddenly it's 1812 and the monumentally annoying British are in a *naval* war with a young upstart country without much navy... new employer much?
 
The best place for her geographically would be Singapore, as this would be nearly a decade before the British got there. Northern Australia is another good one, assuming she knows about it. Both locations would allow her fleet to operate in familiar hunting grounds while safely far from the Chinese navy.
 
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