WI Caucasians crossed the Bering Land Bridge

Caligo

Banned
This Alternate Timeline explores a world where Caucasians rather than Asians migrated across the Bering Land Bridge. This idea may seem ubsurd knowing the currect geographic distribution of Europeans in Eurasia, however, Caucasian people 12,000 years ago inhabited much more of Eurasia than they do today. This map was created by Anthropologist Carleton Coon. It illistrates the extend of Caucasians at the end of the Pleistocene age (10,000 bc) in lime green.

Carleton_Coon_races_after_Pleistocene.PNG


American Indians themselves are an ancient mix of Asian & Caucasian peoples. In this TL Proto-Europeans continue to migrate to the east coast of Eurasia. They inhabit the area north of Manchuria stopping proto-asians from migrating north. Eventually around 15,000 bc these "Ameripeans" cross the bering land bridge. They would follow much the same routes that Amerindians did in our own timeline. They would speak pre-indo-European languages that would probably resemble Finnish-Ugric or Altaic languages more than they do Indo-European ones. Much of Afro-Eurasian history would go on inchanged from our own timeline. Even in our own timeline north-east Siberia was uncharted territory. Not until the 16th century was northern Siberia even incorporated into a single political entity. Just as in our own TL the Americas would be sevred from the Old World and would not be rediscovered until the late 15th century. The Ameripeans would live very simular lifestyles to those of our Amerindians or pre-roman Europeans. Hunter-gatherer societies practicing various forms of Animism. Perhaps like in our own universe more complex civilizations would spring up in Central America just based on geography. If one compared the traditional clothing of American Indians & pre-Roman Europe there are more similarities than differences. Largely because climate plays such a huge role in the development of culture as well as genetics.

tumblr_nmcswzH9pY1rasnq9o1_500.png


Those Ameripeans that inhabit Temperate/Polar climates (Canada, Northern US & Patagonia) would retain light skin & develop fair eyes/hair making them nearly indistiquisable from North Europeans. Those Ameripeans that migrated to Arid & Tropical climates would develop darker skin similar to that of Southern Europeans. When the Spanish arrive in central America they would see the natives as just pagan Spainiards who speak an odd language. Much as in our world disease from Europeans would tear through the native population. This population decline in the Americas would facilitate the religious & linguistic conversion of the Native population.

The phenotypic simularities between the Latin American natives & their Iberian colonizers would make it far too easy to assimulate into Spanish & Portuguese civilization. Same would become true of the north American natives who would be assimulated into either French or English society. I do not pretend to know how the history of North America would have played out. Perhaps, the French might have won the 7 years war but we'll never know. I will predict that Latin America would remain under Iberian rule much longer, perhaps even until the 20th century. The English may try to wrestle Patagonia away from the Spanish much more aggressively in this timeline as the natives their would feel more in common with Northern Eurpeans than Mediterraneans. An interesting reconvergence in this TL would be the "Eskimos." They would live a lifestyle simular to that of the Lapps or Finns back in Europe. These Arctic Ameripeans would develop slight Asiatic features just as their counterparts in Europe.
 

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Albert.Nik

Banned
I could see some chance of peoples who lived towards the East in regions like Caucasus,Volga Basin and Kazakhstan steppe moving into the Bering strait. These regions were historically inhabited by Proto-Indo-Europeans,Uralic people and Caucasian(region) people. But these languages wouldn't yet be fully evolved then. We can think of them as something like Proto-Europeans or Proto-Caucasians. They would need to cross quite large amounts of land inbetween. Not impossible but quite hard. You need flourishing numbers first. The people living in the Caucasus and the Steppe are the best suited for this. They would first flourish in their lands first and still Nomadic mostly and then they could cross over the Steppes and venture into Americas. The odds are a bit low but not impossible totally. They could first go and settle down in OTL Canada,North USA and such places and as you said,eventually be similar to Europeans in the Old World. I made one timeline about that too!

Disclaimer: Proto-Caucasians doesn't mean Caucasoid or any such terms here. I meant about a group in the Black Sea/Caspian Sea region that first evolved the pronounced characteristics of what we today call "European". Nothing else. I called that group first as Proto-Europeans. So that should clarify.
Disclaimer #2: My post was only with reading the title and for a POD about getting one or a handful of an Indo-European/Caucasian/Uralic/Basque/Burusho people into the America at an earlier date. I don't have any other things to say about the claims made by the OP.
 
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What does it matter? They'll be living in the Americas for at least 10,000 years before the first Europeans show up; saying that their languages will have anything in common with the languages spoken in Europe today is like saying that Ancient Akkadian and Modern Hebrew are "similar" languages--technically true, but rather pointless.

As for skin color, I do feel that it might adapt to have similar status as OTL by the processes of evolution. Peripheral features may be slightly more similar to Europeans, but saying that they'd look like Spaniards is a stretch. Meanwhile, the two groups will be as different sociologically, culturally, economically, and immunologically as OTL. There's no way that they are integrated any easier, particularly when the same economic pressures will be acting on the Spaniards and other colonizers to exploit them in various ways are unchanged. Ultimately, biology is a long second to sociology for determining what groups integrate with one another.
 
This Alternate Timeline explores a world where Caucasians rather than Asians migrated across the Bering Land Bridge. This idea may seem ubsurd knowing the currect geographic distribution of Europeans in Eurasia, however, Caucasian people 12,000 years ago inhabited much more of Eurasia than they do today. This map was created by Anthropologist Carleton Coon. It illistrates the extend of Caucasians at the end of the Pleistocene age (10,000 bc) in lime green.

View attachment 436297

American Indians themselves are an ancient mix of Asian & Caucasian peoples. In this TL Proto-Europeans continue to migrate to the east coast of Eurasia. They inhabit the area north of Manchuria stopping proto-asians from migrating north. Eventually around 15,000 bc these "Ameripeans" cross the bering land bridge. They would follow much the same routes that Amerindians did in our own timeline. They would speak pre-indo-European languages that would probably resemble Finnish-Ugric or Altaic languages more than they do Indo-European ones. Much of Afro-Eurasian history would go on inchanged from our own timeline. Even in our own timeline north-east Siberia was uncharted territory. Not until the 16th century was northern Siberia even incorporated into a single political entity. Just as in our own TL the Americas would be sevred from the Old World and would not be rediscovered until the late 15th century. The Ameripeans would live very simular lifestyles to those of our Amerindians or pre-roman Europeans. Hunter-gatherer societies practicing various forms of Animism. Perhaps like in our own universe more complex civilizations would spring up in Central America just based on geography. If one compared the traditional clothing of American Indians & pre-Roman Europe there are more similarities than differences. Largely because climate plays such a huge role in the development of culture as well as genetics.

View attachment 436316

Those Ameripeans that inhabit Temperate/Polar climates (Canada, Northern US & Patagonia) would retain light skin & develop fair eyes/hair making them nearly indistiquisable from North Europeans. Those Ameripeans that migrated to Arid & Tropical climates would develop darker skin similar to that of Southern Europeans. When the Spanish arrive in central America they would see the natives as just pagan Spainiards who speak an odd language. Much as in our world disease from Europeans would tear through the native population. This population decline in the Americas would facilitate the religious & linguistic conversion of the Native population.

The phenotypic simularities between the Latin American natives & their Iberian colonizers would make it far too easy to assimulate into Spanish & Portuguese civilization. Same would become true of the north American natives who would be assimulated into either French or English society. I do not pretend to know how the history of North America would have played out. Perhaps, the French might have won the 7 years war but we'll never know. I will predict that Latin America would remain under Iberian rule much longer, perhaps even until the 20th century. The English may try to wrestle Patagonia away from the Spanish much more aggressively in this timeline as the natives their would feel more in common with Northern Eurpeans than Mediterraneans. An interesting reconvergence in this TL would be the "Eskimos." They would live a lifestyle simular to that of the Lapps or Finns back in Europe. These Arctic Ameripeans would develop slight Asiatic features just as their counterparts in Europe.
Carleton Coon?!

Wasn't he that imbecile who thought that different populations evolved into Homo Sapiens at different times? (Hey don't look at me, I didn't dream that malarkey up).
 
The biggest problem with this is you're relying on dated sources in population genetics, physical anthropology, and how the Americas were populated. Just because one Caucasian group makes it over doesn't mean the entire Americas would be full of them. Different groups migrated at different times, some as recently as a few thousand years ago (Aleuts, Inuit, and a bit before them possible the Haida and Tsimshianic speaking peoples). Some had very different features, like an "Australoid" population distantly related to the Ainu who blended in with their neighbors but still possesses distinctive physical traits and unique languages (they are found in California and Tierra del Fuego).


I'm skeptical of this map since it doesn't acknowledge that some racial populations are incredibly mixed and presumably were back then too. Those Caucasian Siberian populations--the only sensible ones which would migrate to the New World--are probably about as mixed with their Asian neighbors as the Horn of Africa Caucasians are mixed with their African neighbors.

They would speak pre-indo-European languages that would probably resemble Finnish-Ugric or Altaic languages more than they do Indo-European ones.

Doubt it heavily. Only one link between Old World and New World languages has ever been proven to a reasonable degree. The New World has huge linguistic diversity.

Much of Afro-Eurasian history would go on inchanged from our own timeline. Even in our own timeline north-east Siberia was uncharted territory. Not until the 16th century was northern Siberia even incorporated into a single political entity. Just as in our own TL the Americas would be sevred from the Old World and would not be rediscovered until the late 15th century.

Or not since you have an entirely different group of people in the Far Northeast of Asia who will have different interactions with everyone around them.

Those Ameripeans that inhabit Temperate/Polar climates (Canada, Northern US & Patagonia) would retain light skin & develop fair eyes/hair making them nearly indistiquisable from North Europeans.

No they wouldn't given that those traits had not spread throughout all Caucasian populations at the time. They'd be paler skinned than most Indians there and have lighter hair but would look more like (unmixed) Siberian tribes than anything else.

Those Ameripeans that migrated to Arid & Tropical climates would develop darker skin similar to that of Southern Europeans. When the Spanish arrive in central America they would see the natives as just pagan Spainiards who speak an odd language

Spaniards, Berbers, and Arabs look similar, but I somehow don't think a 16th century Spaniard would think of a typical 16th century Berber as just a "Muslim Spaniard speaking an odd language". Not to mention the resemblance would be completely superficial due to over 12,000 years of separation.


The phenotypic simularities between the Latin American natives & their Iberian colonizers would make it far too easy to assimulate into Spanish & Portuguese civilization. Same would become true of the north American natives who would be assimulated into either French or English society.

Nonsensical. Tell me about how well the Scandinavians treated the similar looking Sami people.

The English may try to wrestle Patagonia away from the Spanish much more aggressively in this timeline as the natives their would feel more in common with Northern Eurpeans than Mediterraneans.

No they wouldn't because they'd already be accultured to Spain or otherwise live completely separate lifestyles. Further, there's no guarantee they'd look Northern European for the same reason the southern Australian Aboriginals are almost as dark skinned as the northern Australian Aboriginals (40N gets less light than 40S). And they're descended from tropical Indians too so they'd have no reason to re-evolve lighter skin.

An interesting reconvergence in this TL would be the "Eskimos." They would live a lifestyle simular to that of the Lapps or Finns back in Europe. These Arctic Ameripeans would develop slight Asiatic features just as their counterparts in Europe.

The Inuit came from Asia to begin with only a few thousand years ago. Further, the Sami populations retained Asiatic characteristics which in the Finns were much much much more blended in with Caucasian features.
 
I'm not sure how different this makes anything, besides:
1. Completely (unpredictably) different cultures in the new world, due to different founders. (Megafauna are still wiped out etc.)
2. Later European colonizers remarking on their similarity to the locals, easier "Indian" assimilation, easier colonizer assimilation into "Indian" cultures. (As shown by the Guanches, the Spanish of the time will overlook a family resemblence if you're a stone-age non-Christian. They're taking your stuff. ) Perhaps the Spanish as well won't have as much of a caste system and may give higher status to local nobility than they did in OTL.
3. Higher rates of cateracts in native Americans.
 
The term used was Caucasoid. Anyways, probably should put a disclaimer that he (Carleton S. Coon) thought each of what he classified as races to have become homo sapiens at different times. Meaning he was one of those people who classified non-Whites as being primates while Europeans were something something, all ancient civilizations arise from Aryans, mumble jumbo, ignore how people in Europe were freezing rather than thriving early on. You know, that sort of bodily waste.
 

Caligo

Banned
Warning
@Clandango @Pelranius how many books do you have published? How many degrees from Harvard do you two clowns have? How influential were u two to the 20th century? .. Go somewhere else & bitch about how Christopher Columbus was a dumbie or something.

Carleton Coon > Clandango/Pelranius
 
On a more serious note, proto-indo-europeans didn't even exist until after the glaciers melted and the land bridge was swamped.

If they DID move to north america, they'd probably be a third wave to a filled continent, and most likely only appear on the fringes - maybe replacing the Aleut/inuit wave in the Arctic.
 
@Clandango @Pelranius how many books do you have published? How many degrees from Harvard do you two clowns have? How influential were u two to the 20th century? .. Go somewhere else & bitch about how Christopher Columbus was a dumbie or something.

Carleton Coon > Clandango/Pelranius
Stefan Molyneux has a degree in history, but that doesn't make his ramblings any more coherent, nor backed by evidence.
 
@Clandango @Pelranius how many books do you have published? How many degrees from Harvard do you two clowns have? How influential were u two to the 20th century? .. Go somewhere else & bitch about how Christopher Columbus was a dumbie or something.

Carleton Coon > Clandango/Pelranius
I take it that means you are going to refuse to edit your post to use the word Carleton Coon used. Anyways, how about we talk about Madison Grant or Sigmuend Freud? Sure, lot of their stuff (at least when it comes to race and sexual psychology) has been seen as bunk for decades, but dog darn it, they sure made a difference!


Also, Caucasian and Caucasoid mean two COMPLETELY different things. Care for me to find the old maps which separate Caucaois into Semitic, Hamitic, and Aryan groups? It is the sort of thing people get when they take Noah and the Great Flood literally.
 

corourke

Donor
This POD is still interesting even if you ignore the racial aspect, which is fraught to say the least.

Religious and cultural aspects can still be really interesting to theorize about. For instance, there is the idea of the Proto-indo-european religion. Even if this is still 5000 years from the POD, it would be interesting to read about an American religion that was influenced by these indoeuropean mythologies. Some kind of alt-Aztec take on the Roman Pantheon could be pretty neat.
 
@Clandango @Pelranius how many books do you have published? How many degrees from Harvard do you two clowns have? How influential were u two to the 20th century? .. Go somewhere else & bitch about how Christopher Columbus was a dumbie or something.

Carleton Coon > Clandango/Pelranius

As has already been pointed out, neither a degree nor influence is the same thing as knowledge. I can say that I know more about evolution than Darwin, for example, despite having nowhere near as much influence of "cred" as Darwin, because I live in an era where knowledge of molecular genetics is generally accessible.
 
This POD is still interesting even if you ignore the racial aspect, which is fraught to say the least.

Religious and cultural aspects can still be really interesting to theorize about. For instance, there is the idea of the Proto-indo-european religion. Even if this is still 5000 years from the POD, it would be interesting to read about an American religion that was influenced by these indoeuropean mythologies. Some kind of alt-Aztec take on the Roman Pantheon could be pretty neat.
How would they come in contact? I feel that the stuff with deities can only be stretched so far. A lot of the stuff I have read also suggested the Greeks, Hindus, Romans, and other such slapped their own deity names onto the tales of other lands. Another issue is just how different life is in the Americas than in Eurasia. Outside of physical appearance, I imagine any Caucasoids heading over the land bridge will end up pretty similar to how everyone else who went that way ended up.
 
Is there any population of "sun-burned" caucasoids? That might show us how they would like - caucasoid appearances, but darker-skinned in much of the Americas.

Also, the Americas would be a linguistic treasure trove of Indo-European Languages.

Also, it is currently suspected there were many immigration waves to the Americas rather than just one. We know this because Polynesian sequences have been detected among the Botocudos. We will end with a "CaucAsianoid America", rather than "Asianoid" Americas of OTL.
 

Albert.Nik

Banned
I could see two PODs that could further happen. The Caucasians/Proto-Europeans who cross the Bering strait first after spreading out and migrating in an appropriate way from the Caucasus/Steppe and reach the Americas first and spread over adopting culture and way of life appropriately.

The Europeans(including Caucasian,Iranian and Tocharian people) spread into the Steppes East as a semi nomadic group and penitrate the Americas in the Second or third wave of migration.
 
@Clandango @Pelranius how many books do you have published? How many degrees from Harvard do you two clowns have? How influential were u two to the 20th century? .. Go somewhere else & bitch about how Christopher Columbus was a dumbie or something.

Carleton Coon > Clandango/Pelranius

Carleton Coon may have been a great brain, but he wrote a very long time ago and the only people who still take his word as gospel are some of the weirder white power fringes of the Internet, which one doesn't need a Harvard degree to point out. More to the point, he's not a member of this board, whereas the people you're insulting are. Post with more respect for other members.
 
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