WI: Catherine de Valois marries James I of Scotland?

Catherine de Valois and James I of Scotland were close friends during the latter's imprisonment in England. They were part of a scene of young royals/nobles at the courts of Henry V and Henry VI in the early-1420s who formed a close-knit group. It was Catherine who impressed upon the regency council to finally negotiate terms for James's release, and for said terms to be so generous to James. (The ransom of James I was less than 60 percent the ransom for David II a century prior.) She may even have had a hand in negotiating his marriage to Joan Beaufort, another prominent young noble at court. It's been speculated that the queen in James's book of poetry may not his be wife, Joan, but in fact Catherine de Valois, which leads me to ask ...

What if Catherine de Valois was wed to James I of Scotland?

Let's say that Humphrey, duke of Gloucester, is fretting at the prospect of the young queen mother remarrying and already suspicious of her friendship with Edmund Beaufort -- nephew of Gloucester's chief rival on the council -- as the release of James I is being negotiated. He sees the negotiations as a chance to get Catherine out of Beaufort's reach forever, and convinces the council that such a marriage would guarantee a Scottish queen sympathetic to English interests. (This last point is probably an easy sell considering what we know of Catherine's relationship with young Henry.) And so ... off she goes.

James and Catherine were both "productive" in OTL, so let's say they produce several children in ATL. (Hypothetical tree below.) All of these children are half-siblings of Henry VI, bringing England and Scotland closer together than ever before at a time of great instability in both kingdoms. (James would attempt to extinguish the Albany branch of his family, and Henry VI's mental health issues would eventually see his kingdom dissolve into civil war.) How does this effect events in Britain through the rest of the 15th century and beyond?

Possible tree:
  • James I of Scotland weds Catherine de Valois in 1424, has issue:
    • Alexander, born 1424 (dies young)
    • Margaret, born 1426
    • Isabella, born 1428
    • James II of Scotland, born 1429
    • Catherine, 1430
    • Robert, 1433
 

VVD0D95

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Hmmm, I think for one thing it may lessen some if the scandals Catherine found herself in otl. James was a pretty charming fellow, abd of course with a queen like Catherine at his side who is from an old Scottish ally, he may have more luck
Courting some of the lords and bringing them toward his view point. Perhaps removing gis
Murder at the hands of his uncle. After all for all her good qualities Joan wasn’t the best woman to use to bring Scottish ladies and tbis t heir husbands around. Due to her heritage.
 
James II could wed Anne Beauchamp if his mother wished for an English alliance, alternately Margaret of Anjou (who was a horrible match for Henry)
 

Deleted member 147978

James I of Scotland weds Catherine de Valois in 1424, has issue:
  • Alexander, born 1424 (dies young)
  • Margaret, born 1426
  • Isabella, born 1428
  • James II of Scotland, born 1429
  • Catherine, 1430
  • Robert, 1433
My question is, do any of the ATL children inherit Charles VI's madness like OTL Henry VI?
 
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I do wonder just how close the crowns would be, as sometimes half-siblings are quite fond of each other, but sometimes not.

IIRC, OTL Henry VI was quite happy to learn about his half-siblings, because he had lived for so long as an only child up to that point (plus there are some of the opinion that the favour shown to the Tudor boys was more a product of Margaret of Anjou wanting allies who would be faithful to her husband). Here, he would have known about these half-siblings all along, so perhaps he takes a more benign opinion of them (like a "oh yeah, I have some siblings I guess" compared to his OTL "wait, I have siblings! Wonderful!")

Diplomatically speaking, I could see it going either way (assuming a conflict like that of the Cousins' War breaks out like OTL). If I remember, Scottish policy was to play the two sides off of each other. Even if England and Scotland are close, Scotland's weak position means that keeping England in check is a matter of that state's survival (see: David I during the Anarchy. Yeah, he supported his niece Empress Matilda, but Stephen's wife Queen Matilda was another one of his nieces, and neither familial relationship prevented David from trying to eat up lands in Northern England when the opportunity presented itself).

Even if one English king is the half-sibling of the King of Scots, the family tree you've created has enough sisters to marry into the Yorkist faction if that is seen as desirable. Another factor to consider is how long does Catherine of Valois live? Does she die fairly young like OTL, or is she alive long enough to broker peace between her sons?
 
Diplomatically speaking, I could see it going either way (assuming a conflict like that of the Cousins' War breaks out like OTL).
Considering the underlying reasons of the WOTR was Henry's mental health issues, and I don't see how a different set of marriages in Scotland would affect that, then I think we can safely say some sort of conflict is going to happen.


Even if one English king is the half-sibling of the King of Scots, the family tree you've created has enough sisters to marry into the Yorkist faction if that is seen as desirable. Another factor to consider is how long does Catherine of Valois live? Does she die fairly young like OTL, or is she alive long enough to broker peace between her sons?
OTL James I was intent on elevating the status of the Scottish crown, so I have to imagine that the girls are headed to various continental families to try and bring new prestige t the dynasty. I do wonder if the younger son sticks around in Scotland or heads south to England to mooch off his other, richer brother, though.
 
Considering the underlying reasons of the WOTR was Henry's mental health issues, and I don't see how a different set of marriages in Scotland would affect that, then I think we can safely say some sort of conflict is going to happen.



OTL James I was intent on elevating the status of the Scottish crown, so I have to imagine that the girls are headed to various continental families to try and bring new prestige t the dynasty. I do wonder if the younger son sticks around in Scotland or heads south to England to mooch off his other, richer brother, though.
maybe something not unlike the tree I posted here?

Girls being used as English (instead of French) proxies possibly?
 
Considering the underlying reasons of the WOTR was Henry's mental health issues, and I don't see how a different set of marriages in Scotland would affect that, then I think we can safely say some sort of conflict is going to happen.



OTL James I was intent on elevating the status of the Scottish crown, so I have to imagine that the girls are headed to various continental families to try and bring new prestige t the dynasty. I do wonder if the younger son sticks around in Scotland or heads south to England to mooch off his other, richer brother, though.
Younger son can probably be shipped off to some rich heiress, make himself useful that way
 
I was thinking about this possibility the other day and had to go looking for a thread to bump, lol. Catherine and James marrying would neatly reopen French-Scottish ties, and given that James had a few sprogs as did Catherine, we'd be looking at a couple of kids at a minimum. With immediately significant royal ties, we could see Henry backing his father-in-law against the Albany Stewarts and his half-brothers getting some sort of estates in England. IRL the Tudors got lands in Pembroke and Richmond and Sussex and represented the King in Wales and at court. An alternative here might be to find them estates in Cumbria to counterbalance the Nevilles and Percies in the North of England. An earldom of Carlisle or Cumberland (vacant at this point) might well suit a second son of James and Catherine, or rights to Berwick and Roxburgh.

Now, James (and his successors) definitely would want to strengthen Scotland, but would that be a long term view (as long as Henry is alive) by maximizing the benefits of good English relations, or a short term one predicated on Henry's death and the ensuing conflict between Lancastrians and Yorkists? If James' son marries the right Beaufort, do we see the Stewarts standing over England a century or so earlier?
 
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