WI:Castille And Aragon Remain Separate

What if Castille and Aragon remained separate for at least a century longer than OTL? Maybe Hapsburg Castille or Hapsburg Aragon? Or no Hapsburgs in Spain and they are confined to the HRE? Then the wider effects on Italy, England and the world? maybe not the 'six wives of Henry VIII'. What if?
 
Isabella marries Alfonso V of Portugal? Then you get Portugal-Castille and Aragon goes it's own way maybe Fernando marries Mary the Rich?

In such a situation Portugal-Castille would be quite dominant on the Atlantic for quite some time.
 
How about just two separate states in Spain, and not a Portugal-wank? Isabella could refuse Ferdinand and die single.
 
Ferdinand really disliked his daughter's husband, Philip the Fair. Their arrival in Castile was problematic and Ferdinand frequently quarrled with Philip. (Most likely, he was upset because his daughter was mentally ill and it meant that Philip, as her husband, would rule Castile, and not he). A civil war nearly erupted IIRC, but Philip's untimely death smoothed things over.

However, Ferdinand was pretty much eager to ensure Philip (and his progeny) didn't inherit Aragon, and promptly sought out a new wife and persued and a pro-French policy. He married Germaine de Foix and although she did become pregnant and bear a son, he died shortly after birth. If Ferdinand gets lucky, perhaps the little Prince of Girona (named Juan if I recall) survives.

That will end the personal union between Aragon and Castile. Isabella II and Philip inherited Castile from Isabella I because she was the eldest surviving child, her brother Juan having died in 1498. Philip and Isabella would have no claim over Aragon, as while the Cortes had proclaimed her heiress at some point after 1498, Aragon pretty much followed a semi-salic succession: a woman could succeed, but only if there were no males left to do so. The birth little Juan knocks Isabella down to second in succession.

Another idea might be a Tudor wedding for Ferdinand. He was still haggling with the miserly Henry VII to hurry up and set a date so his daughter Catherine could marry Henry VIII, but the old king was being stingy regarding the dowry. Shortly after the death of his Queen, Elizabeth of York though, he was briefly considering remarriage, as his only remaining live son was Henry VIII, who Henry VII apperently didn't have much faith in. There were apparently several considerations at hand, although it may be hear say.

One is that Henry VII was considering marrying Catherine himself. Another was that Henry was interested in Joanna of Naples. The report on her appearance was satisfactory, but the marriage failed due to unmentioned political and financial reasons. Most likely because of the sour relations that existed between Ferdinand of Aragon and Henry VII (Naples was independent, but ruled by a branch of the Aragonese Trastamara) and probably the fact of the raging Italian wars and the Trastamaras of Naples were far from secure on their throne. Financially, they were probably unable to offer a dowry that the miser Henfy VII would be satisfied with.

The reason I bring it up, is that perhaps instead of Ferdinand marrying Germaine of Foix (and getting tangled up in French affairs in Italy), he makes an offer for Mary Tudor (that is, Henry VII's daughter who married Louis XII, not Bloody Mary) and in return agrees to help secure a match between Henry VII and Joanna. It gives not only Ferdinand a chance of progeny (he was obviously still fertile given Germaine's pregnancy, and Mary produced children with Charles Brandon), but it also gives Henry VII a chance for another son or two, "spares" so to speak for the Tudor dynasty. It might also help if there are stipulations to resolve the financial squabbles between Henry VII and Ferdinand -- say Henry VII dropping claims regarding Catherine's dowry and setting a date for her to marry the Prince of Wales, and Ferdinand offering an additional sum to whatever the King of Naples offers as a dowry.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joanna_of_Naples_(1478–1518)
 
It's an interesting idea, especially since the man fought his whole life (until this point) to keep Aragon and Castile together. And I'm betting he thought he could do it because his father got the job done. John II of Aragon fathered Ferdinand in his 50s and even lived another 30 years.

The thing is Mary Tudor is only 8 years old in 1504. So Ferdinand might have to wait 6 years or more until she might be considered fertile. It's an option, but the man would really have to wait a long time. Henry VII doesn't really have anyone else to offer at the time. The only one of Elizabeth of York's sisters who was unmarried at the time is Cecily of York, who was pushing it at 35 in 1504 if one wanted heirs.

If you wanted this to work out, you might have to tweak things. If you wanted to marry Ferdinand off to one of the younger sisters of Elizabeth of York, you could kill off Catherine of York's husband earlier. She was 25 in 1504 and had children. Or keep Bridget of York (born in 1480) from becoming a nun. Or keep Henry Tudor and Elizabeth of York's second daughter Elizabeth alive. She would be 12 in 1504 so Ferdinand wouldn't have to wait as long.
 

yourworstnightmare

Banned
Donor
If Alfonso, Prince of Asturias didn't die he would have been Henry IVs heir. But alot would depend on the Noble Rebellion and whether Henry or the Rebels (who wanted to install Alfonso would win). Another possible PoD is if Henry is able to completely crush the rebels, and thus not having to name Isabella heiress as a compromise. In that case his daughter Joanna would be heir to Castille, as Henry had wished for. Or we could have a PoD where Henry is strong enough to break his promise and name Joanna heir despite his earlier assurances. It's not that hard to find a PoD where Isabella never become Queen of Castille.
 

Zirantun

Banned
If they remain two separate countries, then Castilian doesn't marginalize Aragonese. Aragon's linguistic situation is kind of unclear though. The Ribegorçan dialect of Aragonese has been heavily influenced by Catalan, but if you can keep the political center out of Barcelona, I can see an expansion of Aragonese at the expense of Catalan. Perhaps Catalan becomes a coastal language, or marginalized into a few hot spots, like Barcelona, and parts of Valencia?
 
If Alfonso, Prince of Asturias didn't die he would have been Henry IVs heir. But alot would depend on the Noble Rebellion and whether Henry or the Rebels (who wanted to install Alfonso would win). Another possible PoD is if Henry is able to completely crush the rebels, and thus not having to name Isabella heiress as a compromise. In that case his daughter Joanna would be heir to Castille, as Henry had wished for. Or we could have a PoD where Henry is strong enough to break his promise and name Joanna heir despite his earlier assurances. It's not that hard to find a PoD where Isabella never become Queen of Castille.

Heheh, Alfonso survived in my TL. No civil war, Henry was brow beat into submission after his own alt son died young. I basically made him a male equivalent to his sister. Ultra Catholic, competent, ambitious, and suffering a bit from the Trastamara's inbreeding in the reproduction department:).
 
It's an interesting idea, especially since the man fought his whole life (until this point) to keep Aragon and Castile together. And I'm betting he thought he could do it because his father got the job done. John II of Aragon fathered Ferdinand in his 50s and even lived another 30 years.

The thing is Mary Tudor is only 8 years old in 1504. So Ferdinand might have to wait 6 years or more until she might be considered fertile. It's an option, but the man would really have to wait a long time. Henry VII doesn't really have anyone else to offer at the time. The only one of Elizabeth of York's sisters who was unmarried at the time is Cecily of York, who was pushing it at 35 in 1504 if one wanted heirs.

If you wanted this to work out, you might have to tweak things. If you wanted to marry Ferdinand off to one of the younger sisters of Elizabeth of York, you could kill off Catherine of York's husband earlier. She was 25 in 1504 and had children. Or keep Bridget of York (born in 1480) from becoming a nun. Or keep Henry Tudor and Elizabeth of York's second daughter Elizabeth alive. She would be 12 in 1504 so Ferdinand wouldn't have to wait as long.

Woops. :eek: Yeah, totally borked on Mary's age. Elizabeth does have sisters, but I think Henry would be wary of marrying them abroad, as it'd be passing Yorkist blood into other royal houses. Yeah, Yorkist and Lancastrian blood was rife within the English nobility until Henry VIII butchered them down, Elizabeth would be a good choice, as she could marry as early as 1506 (yes, she'd only be fourteen and to modern eyes it's yucky, but it's the Renaissance we're talking about -- royalty often married in their teens, and old men marrying teenage girls wasn't uncommon). A surviving Elizabeth would be much more important and a better catch than one of Henry's spinster sister-in-laws.
 
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