WI: Carthage wins the Punic Wars

What if Carthage won the Punic Wars, and how could this have happened.

Which would be more plausible? Carthage winning the First or Second Punic War? Could Hannibal have done it if he was more level headed than IOTL? Would Carthage want to take over Rome, or just leave it humiliated and weak? What would a Carthage dominated antiquity look like?

Discuss.
 

Artaxerxes

Banned
I think its more plausible for Carthage to win the 1st war than the 2nd, Hannibal was good but he just didn't have the resources or expertise to take Rome in a siege and his usual tactics of betrayal or bribery wouldn't work so well against Rome itself.

I think the most likely cause would be an invasion from the north or a strong invasion by the Greeks into Italy, by the end of the war both Carthage and Rome were struggling for manpower and if you can divert forces away from Sicily and recoup some more manpower Carthage can put up a blockade against Rome itself (or piracy against its merchants) and try and strangle the Equestrian order into convincing the senate to surrender.

As for consequences, the 1st Punic war was predominantly a struggle for Sicily so victory is most likely limited to seeing Carthage gain the entire island, more of a temporary setback than a derailment of Romes rise to power. Sooner or later the two empires will clash again and Carthage is more likely to lose any war or attrition as it just doesn't have the manpower Rome does.
 
Sequences of Carthagian victory would be huge and it is impossible say what kind of world would be on later centuries. But if Carthage want ensure its victory from Rome it should destroy or make this very weak state. Problem probably is that Carthage was more trade state than expansive and militarist empire.
 
What if Carthage won the Punic Wars, and how could this have happened.

Which would be more plausible? Carthage winning the First or Second Punic War? Could Hannibal have done it if he was more level headed than IOTL? Would Carthage want to take over Rome, or just leave it humiliated and weak? What would a Carthage dominated antiquity look like?

Discuss.
Carthage winning the first is easy. Make them put more emphasis on a formiddable land army, the same way Rome put emphasis on a navy. Preferrably after the Roman fleet is destroyed in some freak accident/storm like it was just about every time after it defeated a Carthaginian navy, have Carthage revamp their land effort.

If they win the First Punic War, this could discourage Rome from moving outside the Italian peninsula anytime in the foreseeable future, given that their first foray out of the peninsula was an expensive and manpower draining failure.
 
Carthage winning the first is easy. Make them put more emphasis on a formiddable land army, the same way Rome put emphasis on a navy. Preferrably after the Roman fleet is destroyed in some freak accident/storm like it was just about every time after it defeated a Carthaginian navy, have Carthage revamp their land effort.

If they win the First Punic War, this could discourage Rome from moving outside the Italian peninsula anytime in the foreseeable future, given that their first foray out of the peninsula was an expensive and manpower draining failure.

Even that is not necessary. The Roman Corvus made their ships very unstable with its weight. Just have the Carthaginians engage the Romans at sea in rough weather, where Carthaginian ships can manoeuvre reasonably, but Roman ships are sluggish. In this case, the Roman ships could conceivably fall, large scale, into the hands of the Carthaginians, and with no reinforcements, the Romans will lose Sicily. After that, it is just a question of waiting out the Romans until they come to terms.
 
Sequences of Carthagian victory would be huge and it is impossible say what kind of world would be on later centuries. But if Carthage want ensure its victory from Rome it should destroy or make this very weak state. Problem probably is that Carthage was more trade state than expansive and militarist empire.

Carthage simply did not have the manpower to throw at the enemy. To make Carthage truly conquer Rome, you need more manpower for Carthage. Carthaginians relying on mercenaries was not just for fun, or sheer obstinacy. They needed mercenaries just to be able to field a reasonably large army.
 
Even that is not necessary. The Roman Corvus made their ships very unstable with its weight. Just have the Carthaginians engage the Romans at sea in rough weather, where Carthaginian ships can manoeuvre reasonably, but Roman ships are sluggish. In this case, the Roman ships could conceivably fall, large scale, into the hands of the Carthaginians, and with no reinforcements, the Romans will lose Sicily. After that, it is just a question of waiting out the Romans until they come to terms.

That is true. Would these terms allow Carthage to have free reign to take on Syracuse if it so chooses, or will the treaty stipulate that Heiro and Syracuse is to remain untouched by both sides?
 
What saved Rome from Hannibal was the Roman who understood that so long as he didn't give Hannibal battle, he could wait out the war. Also, Hannibal's enemies in the Carthaginian Senate were holding up his request for siege equipment. If Hannibal had gotten that equipment, he could have easily laid siege to Rome and quite possibly have won.
 
Monopolist has made several Xamm Amin Timelines, all of which are excellent reads, about Carthaginian victory in the 2nd Punic War. I'd suggest looking them up and reading them for a more in depth explanation of what might happen.
 
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