WI: Canadians had supported unification with America in the war of 1812

Lusitania

Donor
If the britiah learn all the wrong lesson from revolutionary war

But if they do that then they also increase the military presence in the remaining colonies. Also question is that Britain finally decided to seek peace with the rebels 13 colonies and trade with them. Trade and investment in US was very beneficial to the British. How will that change if they no learn right lessons.
 

Lusitania

Donor
After the rev war or maybe the extend twh polices that they had with the 13 colonies to Quebec
But the issue is that their Hands off agreement with Quebec french elites and Catholic Church has prevented them joining the revolution so why they change that?
 
So let’s discuss exactly what happen and what the butterflies will be.
This is not an "alternate history challenge", it is a "what if", yet, it's not an unreasonable request. Most of the posters in this thread are in agreement that the matter at this junction of time is very difficult and unlikely, but here are some of the least unlikely issues that could arise:

If the United Empire Loyalists, and Yankee Planters would be exorbitantly taxed for the Revolution. If the Canadiens were given an oppressive colonial administration that sought to suppress their culture, and assimilate them into British ways (especially in light of the French Revolution). If large numbers of disaffected Irish rebels were exiled to tracts of Canadian land. If the Highland Clearances were conducted more ruthlessly, and Scottish people were resettled in tracts of Canadian land. If, in fear of republicanism, all democratic traditions were eliminated, and in fear of colonial uprising, common law and trial by jury were replaced by dictatorial colonial codes.
 

Lusitania

Donor
This is not an "alternate history challenge", it is a "what if", yet, it's not an unreasonable request. Most of the posters in this thread are in agreement that the matter at this junction of time is very difficult and unlikely, but here are some of the least unlikely issues that could arise:

If the United Empire Loyalists, and Yankee Planters would be exorbitantly taxed for the Revolution. If the Canadiens were given an oppressive colonial administration that sought to suppress their culture, and assimilate them into British ways (especially in light of the French Revolution). If large numbers of disaffected Irish rebels were exiled to tracts of Canadian land. If the Highland Clearances were conducted more ruthlessly, and Scottish people were resettled in tracts of Canadian land. If, in fear of republicanism, all democratic traditions were eliminated, and in fear of colonial uprising, common law and trial by jury were replaced by dictatorial colonial codes.

If any of these things did happen then that would of changed the makeup and administrative of the BNA colonies. There would of also been a greater British military presence in BNA. That would of changed the military outlook and battles.

The British might of defeated the American milia armies but lost the colonies to revolt. But the window in which the British are occupied in Europe is also small, unless we also extending the napoleonic wars.

While Of all your things the one I find hardest is the attempting to assimilate French Canadians.
 
If any of these things did happen then that would of changed the makeup and administrative of the BNA colonies. There would of also been a greater British military presence in BNA. That would of changed the military outlook and battles.

The British might of defeated the American milia armies but lost the colonies to revolt. But the window in which the British are occupied in Europe is also small, unless we also extending the napoleonic wars.

While Of all your things the one I find hardest is the attempting to assimilate French Canadians.

That could actually justify a vicious cycle-- Britain does worse in the napoleonic wars, so it exploits it colonies more, so to quell unrest it has to send troops to canada, causing it to do worse in the napoleonic wars, etc. But assuming Britain still wants to win the napoleonic wars, there's obviously some limit to how many resources it can dedicate to keeping the canadians in line. So maybe there are two concurrent rebellions-- the british canadians want independence, and possibly unification with the US, while the french canadians want independence, and possibly unification with France.
 

Lusitania

Donor
That could actually justify a vicious cycle-- Britain does worse in the napoleonic wars, so it exploits it colonies more, so to quell unrest it has to send troops to canada, causing it to do worse in the napoleonic wars, etc. But assuming Britain still wants to win the napoleonic wars, there's obviously some limit to how many resources it can dedicate to keeping the canadians in line. So maybe there are two concurrent rebellions-- the british canadians want independence, and possibly unification with the US, while the french canadians want independence, and possibly unification with France.
Yes but with a larger British military in BNA would the war hawks in congress still advocate war against Britain?
 
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That could actually justify a vicious cycle-- Britain does worse in the napoleonic wars, so it exploits it colonies more, so to quell unrest it has to send troops to canada, causing it to do worse in the napoleonic wars, etc. But assuming Britain still wants to win the napoleonic wars, there's obviously some limit to how many resources it can dedicate to keeping the canadians in line. So maybe there are two concurrent rebellions-- the british canadians want independence, and possibly unification with the US, while the french canadians want independence, and possibly unification with France.

There's nothing to squeeze. The lack of currency meant that the colonies existed purely on the barter system, and because Upper Canada can't export anything due to lack of sea outlets you can't take anything from the locals. You could crack down on the people politically but the Upper Canadian leadership and most of the locals were already doing that and didn't mind.

Additional troops is a boon to the colonies because now there's actually hard currency around.
 
Well then they get their asses kicked even more.
Except the population of Canada supports America in this discussion. This leads to a larger domestic support which plagued the early war effort. So the British troops get seized up quite handily in guerrilla warfare I would imagine.
 
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Lusitania

Donor
Except the population of Canada supports America in this discussion. This leads to a larger domestic support which plagued the early war effort. So the British troops get seized up quite handily in guerrilla warfare I would imagine.
There may be disturbances and few attacks but nothing concrete. You need to remember what foces US sent into Canada. That not going to change. Poorly led and ill equipped state militia. Up against much larger British army. While some American wank supporters are all hollering that USA going to win my $$ still on New York State militais being soundly defeated and wiped out.
 
There may be disturbances and few attacks but nothing concrete. You need to remember what foces US sent into Canada. That not going to change. Poorly led and ill equipped state militia. Up against much larger British army. While some American wank supporters are all hollering that USA going to win my $$ still on New York State militais being soundly defeated and wiped out.
It won't be a problem. Esprit de crops will be much improved, many thousands of patriotic militiamen will flock to the cause of Canadian Freedom compared to the unjust OTL War. When the Canadiens and Canadians join their Yankee liberators as loyal Americans, it will go much easier, and even if the British occupiers march too far afield, they'll be swamped in a repeat of Saratoga. Probably worse even for the British at that point.
 

Lusitania

Donor
It won't be a problem. Esprit de crops will be much improved, many thousands of patriotic militiamen will flock to the cause of Canadian Freedom compared to the unjust OTL War. When the Canadiens and Canadians join their Yankee liberators as loyal Americans, it will go much easier, and even if the British occupiers march too far afield, they'll be swamped in a repeat of Saratoga. Probably worse even for the British at that point.
I guess that is from an ASB AMERICAB WANK. Why would French want to be part of the USA and why the Canadian want to be part of the USA.

Lets just say that there is discontent but it would of been no greater than it was in the 13 colonies and only a small percentage of the population supported the rebels in the beginning, At max it would of been 1/3 causing problem. The Americans were not just going to say lets all march up north freeze our asses off to help the French Catholics or Irishmen. No they were busy with their lives. Yes you get a few thousand more volunteers but which state is going to pay for their supplies. Where are the competent Generals. there were none. IT was men wishing to build up their political careers who would be leading these men against true army.

The appearance of invading Americans would of angered many in Canada since many were descendants of the loyalists.
 
On the whole I think it's clear that getting a British American revolt in support of unification with the US at the time of a similar War of 1812 is near implausible since the circumstances needed to bring about the first would derail the second.

Even changing the Napoleonic Wars doesn't help because if the British are doing better they don't need to change their American policies and if doing worse then the British Americans are needed and have to be kept sweet.

Assuming that there could be a Canadian Revolutionary War to parallel the earlier ARW and also characterise it as due to British oppression is to fundamentally misunderstand how and why the ARW happened in the first place.
 
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