WI Cabot "Discovered" America?

What if Columbus didn't sail, but Cabot did -- by, say, 1500 -- with the first landing being in the northeast (Newfoundland, etc)? Let's say Henry VII of England sponsors the voyage.

How does exploration and colonization (assuming it happens) come about differently by starting in the north? One thing I feel fairly certain of -- nobody's going to try what Columbus tried (sailing directly for Asia near the equator) at least for awhile...

(JSYN, this is a second draft of this thread)
 
Cabot's first landing may well have been not Newfoundland but possibly Nova Scotia orthe Maine coast, since his account mentioned "trees tall enough to make ships masts" A letter written by Johan Day, who may have been a Spanish agent, and who knew Columbus and may have transmitted copies of Cabot's maps to him stated that a map drawn by Cabot in 1497 charted 900 miles of coastline!. There is some evidence from Spanish maps, that Cabot may have coasted all the way to the Gulf of Mexico on his last voyage only to be destroyed by a Spanish ship.

So if Spain is out of the picture for whatever reason, Cabot might have returned to Bristol with information of a vast new land of "Brasyle." If he was lucky enough to survive the return voyage, and perhaps bring some gold back from the Islands. Henry, who was a bit of a miser, might well have sponsored a much larger exploration fleet.

Would we today see a western hemisphere populated mainly by Englishmen? Possibly. But the butterflies would be enormous. A solidly Catholic England seems likely. and one that was much less involved in the affairs of the Continent. What do you think?
 
One thing, I think, is clear -- on landing, Cabot would quickly be able to determine that he is far east of Asia; whether he leads a voyage that takes them down to the Gulf, or if it need be a successor, I don't know.

It would mean a lot of contact with native tribes, and Cabot himself wasn't always a good ambassador. :mad: He could well get himself killed before then.

If the Gulf isn't found soon, I also wonder if Henry's miserliness would hinder further exploration; could be England has an established fur trade by the time another explorer sails west from the southern tip of Florida.
 
Well, I think you'll see more native societies make it, or last longer, if the initial pox, malaria and etc is introduced in the Northern continent and works its way south, instead of in the middle and expanding both ways.

At least that's my take on it. A big part of the push by the European powers to explore, conquer and colonize the Americas was the Spanish suddenly become rich from taking down a major Mesoamerican society. Legends of 'cities of gold' played a large part in European penetration in the Americas well into the 19th century.
 
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A solidly Catholic England seems likely. and one that was much less involved in the affairs of the Continent.

Certainly interesting...

Well, I think you'll see more native societies make it, or last longer, if the initial pox, malaria and etc is introduced in the Northern continent and works its way south, instead of in the middle and expanding both ways.

Agreed.
 
George

Teacher; George go the the map and point out America.
George does so.
Teacher; Now, class who discovered America.
Class in unison; George.

I am always a bit distrustful of
who discovered ...?..?.?... treads.

I think with first contact being with the disorganized Northern tribes, exploitation will be a lot slower and much more like OTL's African penetration.
 
Spain is better off without they hyperinflation and destruction of the 'industrial' base caused by the sudden, massive influx of capital. It probably stays a European power longer. However, we haven't really determined that Spain doesn't get the New World wealth yet. If it can be forestalled until 1519, we get the Habsburg Swap (Ferdinand gets Spain and Karl stays in Vienna), a personal favorite.

<ponders maps> if I was Spanish and/or Portuguese, and I had somewhat vague reports of Cabot's New World, then...The probable landing point of the Spanish expedition would be Charleston, South Carolina. The Portuguese know about the current, they just thought it was worthless, so they promptly discover Hispaniola. "Dixie" has settled cultures like the Cherokee, Creek and Cahokia, but my impression is that they didn't have a lot of gold or mineral wealth. This seems a long enough delay to get me my "swap". The Portuguese are likely to discover Brazil quickly just as OTL...but who gets Mexico could go any way from this. Especially if the Henries skimp on funds for colonial expeditions.

Can James IV of scotland survive due to butterflies? That could put a crimp in England's colonial style as well.

If a *Treaty of Tordesillas is drawn up that accounts for Spain, Portugal, and England (because England is still Catholic, more or less), with Portugal already on Hispaniola, I'd bet on horizontal lines with England getting north of 39' and Portugal getting south of 20'. Spain is kinda screwed by that, so it may focus its efforts on Africa more. Peru is in the Portuguese zone, but the Portugues ehave enough on their plate, so I bet a non-signatory power (France or the Netherlands?) get Peru...Mexico will be a hash if it's conquered after such a treaty. Hmm.
 
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Spain is better off without they hyperinflation and destruction of the 'industrial' base caused by the sudden, massive influx of capital. It probably stays a European power longer. However, we haven't really determined that Spain doesn't get the New World wealth yet. If it can be forestalled until 1519, we get the Habsburg Swap (Ferdinand gets Spain and Karl stays in Vienna), a personal favorite.

I'm pretty partial to keeping Spain out of this, which I think is more than plausible given the OP. Other than that, I like this. ;)

if I was Spanish and/or Portuguese, and I had somewhat vague reports of Cabot's New World, then...

Assuming they know at this point it is a New World; Spain may see little reason to take a stab at the Hemisphere with English claims and Portugese power at sea -- who, if anyone's going to take a stab at competing in the area, it will be them.

The Portuguese know about the current, they just thought it was worthless, so they promptly discover Hispaniola.

TBF, they still don't know if the current goes anywhere.

If a *Treaty of Tordesillas is drawn up that accounts for Spain, Portugal, and England (because England is still Catholic, more or less), with Portugal already on Hispaniola, I'd bet on horizontal lines with England getting north of 39' and Portugal getting south of 20'

But if the Portugese do get in on a colonization race, there's no guarantee they'll do any better than OTL -- after all, they've got a lot more in the east to console a loss, whereas England has a lot more riding on this.

but who gets Mexico could go any way from this. Especially if the Henries skimp on funds for colonial expeditions.

My guess -- the English reach the southern tip of Florida (obv called something else TTL), expecting a long voyage to the orient -- and make first contact with the Mexica in this fashion.

Can James IV of scotland survive due to butterflies? That could put a crimp in England's colonial style as well.

No, I'd wouldn't think so.
 
Here's another thought -- as the English scan the Eastern coast of North America looking for a route west, would they plant settlements along the coast to secure their claim?
 
I remember reading somewhere that in OTL, Cabot probably thought that he had reached a northeastern extension of Asia when he actually found either Newfoundland or Nova Scotia. In 1497, many still thought that Columbus had discovered large islands between Europe and Asia, and that sailing further west would lead to Asia, which was still no more than 4000 miles or so west of Europe by sea. If there was a large northeastern extension of Asia (like the real life Kamchatka Peninsula, but bigger), navigators thought that it might be located in the same place as Newfoundland and Nova Scotia were actually located.

If Cabot is the first to find North America, I suspect he would still believe this. Therefore, he would try to sail down the east coast of OTL Canada and the United, believing that he was in northeastern Asia and that Cathay/China could be reached going down the coast. If he can reach Florida, it will be obvious that this is not Asia, but in an attempt to reach Asia, Cabot or another explorer will probably push west into the Gulf, and eventually reach Mexico, where they will make contact with the Mexica. This is assuming that the English king and merchants are willing to fund further expeditions after the first couple make contact only with natives who live in small towns and do not possess any of the luxury goods that would excite investors of the time. If the explorations stop before they reach the richer civilizations of Mexico and Central America, those civilizations might have another century, or at least several decades, before European contact.

On the other hand, even if he never gets south of Florida, Cabot will stake an English claim to everything from Newfoundland to Florida, which may well be followed up by other explorers within a generation, hoping to find a passage or riches that Cabot missed. Exploration thrived on optimism - lots of explorers and investors in the sixteenth and seventeenth and into the eighteenth centuries were convinced that they could succeed in making discoveries that everyone else had missed.
 
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