Deleted member 67076
So what would be the effects of the Byzantine empire creating/getting access to gunpowder and gunpowder weaponry?
EDIT: POD must be before 1300
EDIT: POD must be before 1300
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My first thought was during the early years of Basil II, if that helpsIt really does matter when.
Byzantium with gunpowder while it still has the ability to defend itself is one thing, but by 1350, it makes no difference. There's no money and virtually nowhere to recruit from.
Byzantium with gunpowder while it still has the ability to defend itself is one thing, but by 1350, it makes no difference. There's no money and virtually nowhere to recruit from.
It might speed up some sieges, but muskets don't offer that much advantage - although it wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing.
I'm ignoring shock/fear value there.
Not counting Defensive strategies and cannons?
That is probably what he meant by speeding up sieges.
Ah, economics, the frenemy of innovation.Yep. Cannon as field weapons aren't too useful given the Byzantine way of war (not useless, but not overwhelming), and muskets don't add that much when you can draw on a reasonable corps of archers.
Ah, economics, the frenemy of innovation.
Agreed. No army immediately switched to gunpowder historically speaking. However, will it be very effective against potential invaders?It's not economics, its that cannon move slowly and the circumstances where grapeshot is invaluable are ones Byzantine armies try to avoid.
I'm sure the Byzantines would make use of gunpowder if they developed it, but I don't see it automatically making an all-gunpowder army - it'd be explored as a tool for specific circumstances and gradually built on.
Agreed. No army immediately switched to gunpowder historically speaking. However, will it be very effective against potential invaders?
I mean, I can see extensive use against cavalry, b/c gunpowder scares the horses and can easily cripple them.
Will gunpowder be effective on the Balkan and Anatolian frontiers, especially when fighting against nomad warriors?I think it would be useful, but it would be one of the Byzantine army's tools rather than "we have gunpowder, game over."
But given what we know about the Byzantine military, I suspect taking advantage of that to the fullest extent (the same way Greek fire siphons on ships were deliberately made to look scarier) would be done - and from there, you could get relatively effective guns quickly, IMO.
Byzantium never went for stagnation, after all. It never had the luxury of idleness needed.
Will gunpowder be effective on the Balkan and Anatolian frontiers, especially when fighting against nomad warriors?
Depends on what they can use it for. I mean, primitive guns not so much, but I do think they'll improve.
And judging by Russia OTL, it does matter.
It depends on the timing.
Let's say for the sake of argument that it's invented during the reign of Theophilus (r.829-842). The intellectual climate of the time seems most conducive. However in that period, Byzantium is still on the defensive; the Abbasids are fraying on the edges but by no means out. Thus cannons aren't that useful since early ones are only using in sieges the Byzantine aren't conducting. Arquebuses are in a similar boat.
However grenades on the other hand. Sling-staff grenadiers vs. Arab light cavalry and Turkish horse archers will end very badly for the latter. But they will likely lack the punch to beat lamellar armor, so they'll need to be supported by conventional troops to counter the enemy heavies, but that's not a big deal. And the grenadiers are a perfect counter to the regular ghazi raiders that are the Empire's main security problem at the time.
Interesting development of the said idea: Theophilus may very well win the Battle of Anzen. He was winning till the Turkish horse archers turned the tide, and with sling-staff grenadiers to counter them, he could very will win. That likely butterflies the sack of Amorium in 838, significantly strengthening his position and possibly his health. And considering he was the last iconoclastic emperor, and that iconoclasm was significantly weakened by his defeats at Anzen and Amorium...
Wait didn't the ERE start using grenades in OTL during the early 700s?
What would be the difference?