WI: Bush wins the EC but loses the popular vote again in 2004?

jahenders

Banned
Why is this shocking? Basically, they are saying "the risk of our vote being overruled if it goes against the national majority is worth it to see that our vote *isn't* overruled by other states if *we* support the candidate with the national popular-vote majority." Naturally, most of the states that adopted it were Democratic-controlled states because after 2000 it seemed the Republicans had an Electoral College advantage in case of a close national popular vote. Actually, that is by no means clear, but that's another matter...

I guess it's a mindset thing. I, for one, don't want other states determining the outcome of the election in my state.
 

jahenders

Banned
Once upon a time, states decided their electors by their state legislature. Guess what? There weren't any lawsuits!

That's really not relevant as the state legislatures DO reflect the desires (albeit indirectly) of the people of the state -- they're the peoples' elected representatives. NPVIC OTOH changes in-state outcomes based on people in other states -- VERY different. In any case, my main point was that every one of the states in NPVIC has different constitution and set of laws and SOME of those are almost certain to have some valid grounds for a lawsuit.

NPVIC would make the EC entirely ceremonial and make FPTP the de facto system. Sure, de jure it would be allowing the nation to decide a state's electors, but it would be tantamount to reform.[/QUOTE]

In a way that's true, but a) it's really bastardizing the system to do so, and b) I don't think it's a good change anyway.
 

jahenders

Banned
Well, but it's DOABLE which makes it the only reform of the EC possible anywhere in the visible future.

While it's certainly FAR easier than changing the constitution to eliminate the EC and go "direct popular" (a bad idea IMNSHO), I don't think it's any easier than states joining a semi-similar compact to, instead, agree to allocate votes proportionally. So it's not the only EC reform that's possible in the visible future.

This alternate compact would achieve the goal of better reflecting the people's will within each state, avoids almost all of the significant concerns with the current system, but doesn't totally throw out the balancing mechanism of a state-oriented impact.
 
While it's certainly FAR easier than changing the constitution to eliminate the EC and go "direct popular" (a bad idea IMNSHO), I don't think it's any easier than states joining a semi-similar compact to, instead, agree to allocate votes proportionally. So it's not the only EC reform that's possible in the visible future.

This alternate compact would achieve the goal of better reflecting the people's will within each state, avoids almost all of the significant concerns with the current system, but doesn't totally throw out the balancing mechanism of a state-oriented impact.

That still doesn't deal with the un-proportional distribution of EV in the Electoral College. For instance, 1 EV in Wyoming represents less people than 1 EV in Texas.

What do you have wrong with a simpler system?
 

jahenders

Banned
That still doesn't deal with the un-proportional distribution of EV in the Electoral College. For instance, 1 EV in Wyoming represents less people than 1 EV in Texas.

What do you have wrong with a simpler system?

True, it doesn't change that. However, I don't see that as a negative because that "un-proportionality" is offset by the balancing effect it has in making small states at least marginally relevant (something those pesky founding fathers agreed with BTW). If we had pure direct election, you'd have multiple states 'outvoted' by a single large city or county. As it is now, the EC result generally matches the popular vote anyway and it would more closely match that if states went proportional.

As far as simpler, what's being proposed is FAR from simpler. The NPVIC concept doesn't get rid of the EC, doesn't change the system to direct election, etc. Instead, NPVIC keeps all the current complications, but then asks that several dozen states to agree to add the complication of a post-election vote-changing scheme, whereby states' EVs are changed once the national results are known. If you ACTUALLY want a simpler system, you'll need to make a constitutional change.
 
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