WI - Burma conquered by Qing in Sino-Burmese War

What-If parts or the whole of Burma was conquered by the Qing dynasty in the Sino-Burmese War?

Also what effect would Chinese access to the Bay of Bengal have should Burma remain a part of China (either ROC or PRC) up to the present day?
 
Would the British sit tight and let this happen?I think the British will see the Qing as a threat to British rule of Bengal and possibly try to expel the Qing.In the end,the Qing probably going to lose Burma in one war or another to the British.
 
Would the British sit tight and let this happen?I think the British will see the Qing as a threat to British rule of Bengal and possibly try to expel the Qing.In the end,the Qing probably going to lose Burma in one war or another to the British.

The wars were in the 1760s. The British can't beat the Qing yet.

The British will probably try to fight against China, and this might be the boost the Qing needs to keep itself open - because the British menace is right there. While IOTL there was a significant Chinese minority, I'd imagine that the minority would slowly expand into a majority in coastal Burma.

In the 1830s, opium is imported through Burma instead of Hong Kong, maybe? This road is much easier to close, so China would suffer from mess opiate addiction. Things will change from there.
 
The wars were in the 1760s. The British can't beat the Qing yet.

The British will probably try to fight against China, and this might be the boost the Qing needs to keep itself open - because the British menace is right there. While IOTL there was a significant Chinese minority, I'd imagine that the minority would slowly expand into a majority in coastal Burma.

In the 1830s, opium is imported through Burma instead of Hong Kong, maybe? This road is much easier to close, so China would suffer from mess opiate addiction. Things will change from there.

The British's centre of power in India,Bengal,is just next door to Burma.Whereas,the Qing has significant difficult controlling Burma due to disease and logistics.I don't think it would be difficult for the British to expel the Qing from Burma if their goal is limited to that.So most likely,it will lead to conflict much earlier than OTL between the two.
 
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I don´t think the Qing will be able to stay for a lot of time in Burma and I think they will probably only take part of it(the coast would go to Britain) and lose it in an alternate version of the series of rebellion it experienced.
 
I don´t think the Qing will be able to stay for a lot of time in Burma and I think they will probably only take part of it(the coast would go to Britain) and lose it in an alternate version of the series of rebellion it experienced.

I think that they would probably only take the northern areas of Burma, which are the least Burmese parts of Burma (Shan state, for example). Any further would be very difficult to maintain, but suppose they somehow did it.

I can see the emperor ordering a mass extinction of the Burmese people who keep rising up in a similar fashion to the Dzungars, and then resettling the area with Han, Hui, Manchus, and maybe some Tai.

Because of the POD, I think that Britain and China might clash over Burma earlier than 1836, which leads to a stalemate (or pseudo-Chinese victory, since it's not possible for China to invade Britain - oh wait, British India, but that would be much harder - but it'd also be extremely hard for Britain to invade China because Chinese junks are more useful against British ships of the time period).

Unfortunately, this may delay modernization efforts (or not at all, given that the war is earlier, and there's time for another war later).

The Russians would definitely back up the Qing much more than ITTL, since if they can get a modernized-ish Chinese army, they have a HUGE bargaining chip over Britain. Literally, this Chinese army has easier access to British India, and while it would be harder for the Russian army to reach British India, this means that China becomes a part of the Great Game.
 
So Dzungars and the Burmese are completely different. For one there are a lot more of the latter than the first, even before the fall of the Dzungars. Another thing is that you can tax the Burmese fairly easily while that's.....hard.....for the Dzungars who are Western Mongols after all. The third issue is that there's steppe precedent for killing off the Dzungars, while killing off the Burmese in general would be new to Indochina.
 
The Qing may have to fight Siam. If Burma is weak enough to be defeated by the Qing, that may mean that they are too weak to defeat Ayutthaya. Without the destruction of their capital by Burmese forces, Siam may be stronger and annex Lan Na and the rest of the Shan states.
 
The Qing may have to fight Siam. If Burma is weak enough to be defeated by the Qing, that may mean that they are too weak to defeat Ayutthaya. Without the destruction of their capital by Burmese forces, Siam may be stronger and annex Lan Na and the rest of the Shan states.

The Qing invasion was actually after Ayyuthaya got rekt, IIRC. If the Qing hadn't intervened, Burma would have been able to possibly do to Siam what Siam did to Cambodia.
 
The Qing invasion was actually after Ayyuthaya got rekt, IIRC. If the Qing hadn't intervened, Burma would have been able to possibly do to Siam what Siam did to Cambodia.
The Qing invasions started in 1765. Ayutthaya was sacked in 1767. Burma was fighting the Qing and Siam at the same time for a period.
 
So Dzungars and the Burmese are completely different. For one there are a lot more of the latter than the first, even before the fall of the Dzungars. Another thing is that you can tax the Burmese fairly easily while that's.....hard.....for the Dzungars who are Western Mongols after all. The third issue is that there's steppe precedent for killing off the Dzungars, while killing off the Burmese in general would be new to Indochina.

But's it's not new to the Qing
 
But's it's not new to the Qing

It's pretty new to kill a few million taxable farmers and waste even more money trying to goad Chinese farmers into going south. Dzungaria was agriculturally almost useless plus the Dzungars were Mongols.

The best thing to compare this might be Vietnam in the Ming empire, whch despite extensive Vietnamese resistance did not lead to genocide.
 
A genocide would only lead to make a British intervention be welcomed in Burma.

Meh, the Qing don't care about the British at this point in time. The British can't do much about it in the 1700s, either.

It's pretty new to kill a few million taxable farmers and waste even more money trying to goad Chinese farmers into going south. Dzungaria was agriculturally almost useless plus the Dzungars were Mongols.

The best thing to compare this might be Vietnam in the Ming empire, whch despite extensive Vietnamese resistance did not lead to genocide.

Maybe they wouldn't go through with the genocide, but the Qing would still encourage Manchus and Han to go there and set up a bureaucratic system, just like what happened in Yunnan. Perhaps China is somehow able to hold it until WWII, though it would keep a Burmese majority (like how Yunnan had a non-Han majority), though when the Chinese flee from the Japanese to the west, Chinese settlers jump to Burma too.

^^ Assuming that butterflies don't go rampant.

Of course, it's entirely possible that nothing happens, and the British later take Burma and Yunnan from China later.

Or, the British try to fight China, and there's a stalemate, like I said earlier.
 
Maybe they wouldn't go through with the genocide, but the Qing would still encourage Manchus and Han to go there and set up a bureaucratic system, just like what happened in Yunnan. Perhaps China is somehow able to hold it until WWII, though it would keep a Burmese majority (like how Yunnan had a non-Han majority), though when the Chinese flee from the Japanese to the west, Chinese settlers jump to Burma too.

Yeah the Qing cannot hold any coast for long, that's for sure, so Qing Burma is probably limited to the north in extent while a few anti-Qing states pop up in the south. And of course Chinese bureaucratic systems will be enforced to a degree on Burma especially in the population centers but I think the Qing would make heavy use of the tusi system than even Yunnan because they know Burma is not a Vietnam.

I have my own doubts about how long the Qing can hold even upper Burma, because there is almost no precedent for a lasting empire on both sides of the huge massif. Well into the 20th century the Burman hills were (and to some extent are) populated by "wild" peoples, and in premodern times, the Burmese state's area of control would annually shrink and grow based on the season (maps showing stable borders in Southeast Asia are overgeneralizing). Burma is also a mandala state, it's largely hegemonic. So Burma isn't exactly the kind of state that the Qing are accustomed to. Add to that rampant racism, ignorance...the Qianlong Empror might hold on to it out of sheer obstinacy, but how long does Qing Burma last in the 19th century?

What happens to Burma's Muslim minority could be interesting with a surviving Arakan.
 
Yeah the Qing cannot hold any coast for long, that's for sure, so Qing Burma is probably limited to the north in extent while a few anti-Qing states pop up in the south. And of course Chinese bureaucratic systems will be enforced to a degree on Burma especially in the population centers but I think the Qing would make heavy use of the tusi system than even Yunnan because they know Burma is not a Vietnam.

I have my own doubts about how long the Qing can hold even upper Burma, because there is almost no precedent for a lasting empire on both sides of the huge massif. Well into the 20th century the Burman hills were (and to some extent are) populated by "wild" peoples, and in premodern times, the Burmese state's area of control would annually shrink and grow based on the season (maps showing stable borders in Southeast Asia are overgeneralizing). Burma is also a mandala state, it's largely hegemonic. So Burma isn't exactly the kind of state that the Qing are accustomed to. Add to that rampant racism, ignorance...the Qianlong Empror might hold on to it out of sheer obstinacy, but how long does Qing Burma last in the 19th century?

What happens to Burma's Muslim minority could be interesting with a surviving Arakan.

About the massif, the western massifs make it harder for Britain to control Burma through land routes from India, but they still succeeded (though they had the ability to use their navy). Apart from that, Thailand and Vietnam kinda hold two sides of the massif-ish.

800px-GENERAL-Massif_2May2010.jpg


The Qing's racism and ignorance might prompt them to believe that they can hold onto Burma longer :p

But China is fairly hegemonic, so...

Sinicizing influence?
 
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