WI:Bryzantium Survival Till'the age of revolutions

I am all for butterflies, but I have the slight feeling in my stomach that a surviving Byzantium would just be a different Ottman Empire.

They won't be SUPER-ROMANS or SUPER-HELLENISTS unless you put the POD way back.

I also agree with those who say that the Italian/Western European Renaissance does not entirely depends on the fall of Byzanz. A strong and trading empire could be just as useful in spreading ideas. And as one of my professors once said: if you look at the Middle Ages from a certain angle, then you see one Renaissance following the next.

So today we might see a roughly similar world, with Greece/Turkey replaced by a very traditionally Orthodox, economically mediocre monarchy or republic.
 
I am all for butterflies, but I have the slight feeling in my stomach that a surviving Byzantium would just be a different Ottman Empire.

Despite not having an equivalent to the janissaries, despite not practicing widescale slavery (relevant more for how that means social organization exists), despite interacting with its neighbors entirely differently (on many levels) . . .

I suppose you could say "Yeah, I did say a different Ottoman Empire" - but at some point it becomes too different to be very Ottoman-like at all.
 
I am all for butterflies, but I have the slight feeling in my stomach that a surviving Byzantium would just be a different Ottman Empire.

They won't be SUPER-ROMANS or SUPER-HELLENISTS unless you put the POD way back.

I also agree with those who say that the Italian/Western European Renaissance does not entirely depends on the fall of Byzanz. A strong and trading empire could be just as useful in spreading ideas. And as one of my professors once said: if you look at the Middle Ages from a certain angle, then you see one Renaissance following the next.

So today we might see a roughly similar world, with Greece/Turkey replaced by a very traditionally Orthodox, economically mediocre monarchy or republic.

to be honest, anyone that imagines that the Byzantines would be SUPER-something, are keen to a byzantine wank, and not a palusible ATL.

But, from that point to claim that a surviving Byzantine Empire would a a different Ottoman Empire, there is a vast distance. Of course, as I said before, the Italian Renaissance did not entirely depend on the Byzantines (perharps its known shape only), but if you have the image that the Byzantine Empire was nothing more than a "typical" theocratic kingdom of the Middle Ages and somewhat backwards than the western christendom, then I' m afraid that you rely on anachronistic stereotypes which have been turned down by the science of History some decades now...
 
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