WI: Bryan Gould becomes Labour Leader

In light of Corbynmania, I've been set thinking about one of the last times a lefty candidate stood (the only one in the meantime who passed the nomination threshold was Abbott in 2010, of course). This was Bryan Gould, a New Zealand immigrant who had risen to medium office in Kinnock's Shadow Cabinet. In the end, he only won 9% of the vote against the juggernaut that was John Smith.

But what if Gould had run a better campaign, and Smith had died two years early? Presumably, people like Meacher, Kaufman and Cook would still keep their hats out of the ring, and probably support Gould. The modernisers discussed a Brown candidacy IOTL, so it looks like a straight fight between Gould and Brown, which looks a lot more winnable for Gould.

So what happens in the event of a Gould victory? Does the UK still sign the Maastricht Treaty with the LotO a Eurosceptic? And if the Maastricht vote loses Major the confidence of the house, does Gould win the ensuing election? On the other hand, if Major struggles on to 1997 (with Gould presumably winning) what sort of stuff does the Gould Ministry do?
 
and of course the elephant in the room, would the UK Labour Party and voting public accept a foreign born leader/PM? Or would people in the former vote against him on the basis that they think it will be a problem at the next election?
 
Bonar Law was from Canada, yet he became PM. I don't see how being from another Commonwealth Country is going to affect Gould's chances.
 
Bonar Law was from Canada, yet he became PM. I don't see how being from another Commonwealth Country is going to affect Gould's chances.

Well, Bonar Law was a long time ago, when everyone in question would have accepted common British identity. Is that still true in the 1990s? Anyway, BL moved back at what, age 12? Gould moved to the UK at about 22-23, after graduating university.

You could well be right, don't get me wrong. Its just one of those questions.

In NZ, we have a version that I call the Grant Robertson Question. He is the MP for Wellington Central, a high flyer, destined for high office (and likely has been considered such since uni politics days). Anyway, he has unsuccessfully run for leader of the NZ Labour Party twice. One of the oft speculated reasons he loses (and it is always reasonably close) is that he is gay and in a committed relationship. People always dance around the topic, wondering whether or not it will impact the voting public or party, or not. Most people seem to think it won't, but then he always loses anyway.
 
Well, Bonar Law was a long time ago, when everyone in question would have accepted common British identity. Is that still true in the 1990s? Anyway, BL moved back at what, age 12? Gould moved to the UK at about 22-23, after graduating university.

You could well be right, don't get me wrong. Its just one of those questions.

In NZ, we have a version that I call the Grant Robertson Question. He is the MP for Wellington Central, a high flyer, destined for high office (and likely has been considered such since uni politics days). Anyway, he has unsuccessfully run for leader of the NZ Labour Party twice. One of the oft speculated reasons he loses (and it is always reasonably close) is that he is gay and in a committed relationship. People always dance around the topic, wondering whether or not it will impact the voting public or party, or not. Most people seem to think it won't, but then he always loses anyway.

We elected a woman PM in '79, so I'd assume that being from NZ would only be a slight damper on things for Gould - this being before the Great OE Migration which denied jobs in hospitality to an entire generation of Londoners. It would be more of a quirk than an issue, let alone a "he's definitely going to commit treason and also I heard he goes to Wales at the weekends to get back to nature ifyouknowwhatimean" vote-swinger.
 

Thande

Donor
I don't think it would be a major issue, except perhaps one Tory attack point might be that "Labour has been led by a Welshman (Kinnock), considered a Scotsman (Smith, if he lives in this scenario) and gone for a New Zealander (Gould) - was Harold Wilson their last Englishmen before they ran out?"

(Playing on the fact that Callaghan and Foot represented Welsh constituencies)

But I doubt it would sway that many votes anyway. Did Gould have a noticeable accent?
 
I don't think it would be a major issue, except perhaps one Tory attack point might be that "Labour has been led by a Welshman (Kinnock), considered a Scotsman (Smith, if he lives in this scenario) and gone for a New Zealander (Gould) - was Harold Wilson their last Englishmen before they ran out?"

(Playing on the fact that Callaghan and Foot represented Welsh constituencies)

But I doubt it would sway that many votes anyway. Did Gould have a noticeable accent?

Would Labour voting against Maastricht cause a loss of confidence and an early election, do you think? I know this is close to your heart. ;)
 
From what I can remember hardly anyone knew he was from New Zealand until he lost the election for party leader.

It was only mentioned in the media when he announced that he was retiring from politics and would become a university professor, "In his native New Zealand." Those were the words of the TV newsreaders, not him.
 
In light of Corbynmania, I've been set thinking about one of the last times a lefty candidate stood (the only one in the meantime who passed the nomination threshold was Abbott in 2010, of course). This was Bryan Gould, a New Zealand immigrant who had risen to medium office in Kinnock's Shadow Cabinet. In the end, he only won 9% of the vote against the juggernaut that was John Smith.

But what if Gould had run a better campaign, and Smith had died two years early? Presumably, people like Meacher, Kaufman and Cook would still keep their hats out of the ring, and probably support Gould. The modernisers discussed a Brown candidacy IOTL, so it looks like a straight fight between Gould and Brown, which looks a lot more winnable for Gould.

So what happens in the event of a Gould victory? Does the UK still sign the Maastricht Treaty with the LotO a Eurosceptic? And if the Maastricht vote loses Major the confidence of the house, does Gould win the ensuing election? On the other hand, if Major struggles on to 1997 (with Gould presumably winning) what sort of stuff does the Gould Ministry do?

Well Gould wasn't on the hard left, from what I understand, but rather the soft left.
 
Well Gould wasn't on the hard left, from what I understand, but rather the soft left.

I didn't say otherwise - he'd be a significant change from Blair in any case.

Although he has recently written a blog post about how Corbyn is too moderate. That may well be down to old age.
 
We elected a woman PM in '79, so I'd assume that being from NZ would only be a slight damper on things for Gould - this being before the Great OE Migration which denied jobs in hospitality to an entire generation of Londoners. It would be more of a quirk than an issue, let alone a "he's definitely going to commit treason and also I heard he goes to Wales at the weekends to get back to nature ifyouknowwhatimean" vote-swinger.
I can see the Sun Headline now, Sheep Shagger Bombs Parliament :D

From what I can remember hardly anyone knew he was from New Zealand until he lost the election for party leader.

It was only mentioned in the media when he announced that he was retiring from politics and would become a university professor, "In his native New Zealand." Those were the words of the TV newsreaders, not him.
So he can over come the "foreign" aspecet of his challenge, with John Smith, having a heart attack earlier (maybe one that only makes retire) who goes up against Gould?
Eric Heffer
John Prescott
Margaret Beckett
Peter Shore - described in an obituary by the Conservative journalist Patrick Cosgrave as "Between Harold Wilson and Tony Blair, the only possible Labour Party leader of whom a Conservative leader had cause to walk in fear."
Tony Benn
Tony Blair
 
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