WI: Brown sets up Lisbon referendum

The British Conservative Party doesn't support leaving, yes a majority of it members may support it, but the Party doesn't. It should tell you something that none of the major British parties support leaving EU, even through clearly a majority of the British population do support it. Simply put they don't adopt a popular policy supported by a majority of the population, which could very well lead them to victory. That they don't adopt that policy, either mean that the Evil Eurocrats has bribed the entire British political establishment or that they think such a policy would be disasterous.

Valdemar II

Aren't you making the assumptions that a corrupt and hide-bound [I'm not just talking about their views on the EU here!] political establishment is a) wise and b) responsible?;) You are talking about politicians here, remember!

Seriously there are plenty of cases in history where a ruling elite refuses to accept changes because they would be 'disastrous' when actually rejecting those changes means they end up being overtaken by other societies that do make changes.

Steve
 
The Tory membership would like the Tories to be in favour of leaving but as we learned under Hague if you bang on too much about Europe you get beaten.
Hague got beaten in 2001 principally because he was not committed to the NHS and wanted tax breaks for private medicine.
 

Valdemar II

Banned
Valdemar II

Aren't you making the assumptions that a corrupt and hide-bound [I'm not just talking about their views on the EU here!] political establishment is a) wise and b) responsible?;) You are talking about politicians here, remember!

If you think so little of the people governing your country, you should blow up parliament, shoot the PM or start a revolution. Politicians aren't idiots, they don't enter politic because they are stupid and lacking in ambitions or visions. While I may dislike the British neo liberal policies. I can see why they're implemented and what the goals are.

Seriously there are plenty of cases in history where a ruling elite refuses to accept changes because they would be 'disastrous' when actually rejecting those changes means they end up being overtaken by other societies that do make changes.

Yes there are, but they always had opposition among the other major parties, here we only see thjem giving lip service to the alternative, and it's not because they has been bribed by big business, it's because the British economy are integrated into the common market to a degree few other members are. Ironic this is thanks to Thatcher and her destruction/castration of the secondary sector of the economy, Britain has decided to set its economy up with focus on the tertiary sector specifict financing, this only make sense with it access to the European markets, leaving EU would remove the fundament on which the British economy build.
 
You do realize by doing that we still have to implement every regulation and directive and decision that the EU makes, we just loose any and all say in them, right?
Which is why my position is generally stay in but negotiate a metric ass-tonne of opt-outs. Keep our voice over rules and legislation but avoid the major drawbacks to become something similar to Norway or the other EFTA nations.
 
If you think so little of the people governing your country, you should blow up parliament, shoot the PM or start a revolution. Politicians aren't idiots, they don't enter politic because they are stupid and lacking in ambitions or visions. While I may dislike the British neo liberal policies. I can see why they're implemented and what the goals are.

I also dislike the 'neo-liberal' policies and see why their being implementation. Which, to someone who can see beyond the end of their nose, makes clear that the people in charge are neither particularly wise or moral. Unfortunately while I'm a reasonably deep thinker I'm not violent and still hope that realistic reform can be achieved by peaceful means.

Yes there are, but they always had opposition among the other major parties, here we only see thjem giving lip service to the alternative, and it's not because they has been bribed by big business, it's because the British economy are integrated into the common market to a degree few other members are. Ironic this is thanks to Thatcher and her destruction/castration of the secondary sector of the economy, Britain has decided to set its economy up with focus on the tertiary sector specifict financing, this only make sense with it access to the European markets, leaving EU would remove the fundament on which the British economy build.

There is the problem that the Looting during the Thatcher/Major/Blair years means we're markedly weaker than we were before then. However the financial institutions are less tangled with Europe than you think, if only because European financial systems are somewhat better regulated than the Anglo-American ones. Hence far less attractive to the fly-by-night antics of the London financiers.

Steve
 
Everyone indeed has an opinion, but you'll find that the people having an informed opinion are a lot fewer. Decades of relentless jingoistic propaganda by the Murdoch media empire and others have resulted in much of the British public holding views about the EU that are seriously at odds with reality.

It's a bit unfair to say that tabloids are essentially brainwashing people over the EU. They point out the waste and the useless laws done by the EU that's true, but at the end of the day that's what medias are for to hold the government and the institutions to account.

The good thing in Britain is that at least we do have some kind of debate on the European Union and on its nature. The same can certainly not be said of France where all the medias are emphatically supporting EU membership, as is currently illustrated by their coverage of the eurozone troubles.

While there are some nutters in Eurosceptic circles, especially with regards to metric vs imperial measurement. I can tell you from personal experience Hendryk that the vast majority of the people I have met through these circles are perfectly sane and most of them are very polite and very open minded towards foreigners like me. Despite being French as you are, I have NEVER faced any disrespect AT ALL in Euroskepctic circles. Rather people are curious and want to know more about myself and about the situation in France.
 
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