WI: British West Indies transferred to Canada?

Yeah, I think it's difficult to overstate the impact that racism(or racial tensions, if you prefer) would have on provoking conflict between old-stock Canadians and the new BWI citizens.

Another thing, the two largest BWI nations, Jamaica and Trinidad and Tobago, together have a poplation about equal to that of Alberta, plus there are lots of other BWI nations besides those that could be annexed as well. And they're ALL English-speaking. One wonders what Quebec, or for that matter non-Quebec francophones, would think about admitting them all into Canada. Especially given the Empire Loyalist-style hoopla that likely would have surrounded annexation in at least the earlier years of Canadian history.

In 1911 the Bahamas only had 65,000 people. It has a low population and actually had a proposal for union. The others didn't really (though there was talk of Antigua as well). If the Bahamas happens in 13-14 then the war happens, Canada is going to be pretty tied up with post-war politics until the mid '20s and probably won't push for another island colony.

I think the others are possible given a 19th century POD, but 1900 is far too late.
 
Yeah, I think it's difficult to overstate the impact that racism(or racial tensions, if you prefer) would have on provoking conflict between old-stock Canadians and the new BWI citizens.

Another thing, the two largest BWI nations, Jamaica and Trinidad and Tobago, together have a poplation about equal to that of Alberta, plus there are lots of other BWI nations besides those that could be annexed as well. And they're ALL English-speaking. One wonders what Quebec, or for that matter non-Quebec francophones, would think about admitting them all into Canada. Especially given the Empire Loyalist-style hoopla that likely would have surrounded annexation in at least the earlier years of Canadian history.

Which dovetails into the interesting question of how this affects the independence referendums. I think the most likely scenario is that there’s a ton of black immigration from the islands to Canada, but particularly the eastern provinces on the U.S. border (where most of the people and jobs are). That includes Quebec. Those people aren’t likely to share the dream of an independent Quebec, but it would probably alienate at least some of the residents of the province who voted against independence IOTL. So a lot depends on which outweighs the other.
 
Those people aren’t likely to share the dream of an independent Quebec, but it would probably alienate at least some of the residents of the province who voted against independence IOTL. So a lot depends on which outweighs the other.

Ah, the smell of racial bigotry clouding people's strategic thinking. (Not accusing you of that just tbc).
 
Which dovetails into the interesting question of how this affects the independence referendums. I think the most likely scenario is that there’s a ton of black immigration from the islands to Canada, but particularly the eastern provinces on the U.S. border (where most of the people and jobs are). That includes Quebec. Those people aren’t likely to share the dream of an independent Quebec, but it would probably alienate at least some of the residents of the province who voted against independence IOTL. So a lot depends on which outweighs the other.

What's your definition of 'a ton'? The Bahamas are the only realistic Caribbean Territory to join up and they have a tiny population. Any demographic shift would be small. If anything, it goes the other way as older retirees all go to the Bahamas to retire instead of Florida and Arizona.
 

Lusitania

Donor
For such an idea to have a chance to work it would need to be before the 29 th century. Make the idea of Canada not just uniting British colonies north of US but all British colonies in North America. With Bermuda and Bahamas as the link to the southern provinces. Lesser antilles, Guiana, Jamaica and sorouding islands (British Honduras also) and Norther islands (Bahamas).
 
Ah, the smell of racial bigotry clouding people's strategic thinking. (Not accusing you of that just tbc).

The Quebec sovereignty movement is pretty anti-immigrant IOTL because they view it as diluting the French heritage of Canada. This would probably turn at least the fringe of it openly racist as well.

What's your definition of 'a ton'? The Bahamas are the only realistic Caribbean Territory to join up and they have a tiny population. Any demographic shift would be small. If anything, it goes the other way as older retirees all go to the Bahamas to retire instead of Florida and Arizona.

There is talk to this day of Turks and Caicos joining Canada, as the article posted earlier in this thread shows. If Britain seriously wants to divest itself of its Caribbean colonies, then the Caymans and BVI will go, too. There was a proposal to the Bermuda Assembly for them to join, and it looks like Trinidad and Tobago explored the idea as well. As the matter of fact it looks like nearly every British Caribbean colony pondered it in some level of seriousness at some point. It all depends hugely on when exactly the POD is, but if you go early enough to say 1917 when the then Canadian PM was seriously proposing annexation of a lot of Caribbean territory to London, they could theoretically end up with just about everything Britain holds in that part of the world, including Belize and Guyana.
 
Which dovetails into the interesting question of how this affects the independence referendums. I think the most likely scenario is that there’s a ton of black immigration from the islands to Canada, but particularly the eastern provinces on the U.S. border (where most of the people and jobs are). That includes Quebec. Those people aren’t likely to share the dream of an independent Quebec, but it would probably alienate at least some of the residents of the province who voted against independence IOTL. So a lot depends on which outweighs the other.

Asp:

I wonder if you could clarify. BWI migrants moving to Quebec would not be supportive of separation. I understand that, and agree. But what do you mean by "..it would probably alienate at least some of the residents of the province who voted against independence IOTL"? You mean some of the people who voted non woiuld not like having folks from the BWI in Quebec? Probably true, but how does that effect how anyone votes in the referenda?
 
Asp:

I wonder if you could clarify. BWI migrants moving to Quebec would not be supportive of separation. I understand that, and agree. But what do you mean by "..it would probably alienate at least some of the residents of the province who voted against independence IOTL"? You mean some of the people who voted non woiuld not like having folks from the BWI in Quebec? Probably true, but how does that effect how anyone votes in the referenda?

Getting Quebec out of Canada would stop further black migraction. Sadly, there are always those who see that as a plus.
 
Getting Quebec out of Canada would stop further black migraction. Sadly, there are always those who see that as a plus.

Thanks.

If we're talking about anglos who voted "non" IOTL, I don't think many of them would support independence just to get rid of the blacks. Rule by Jacques Parizeau et al would be a pretty hard pill to swallow, no matter how much they disliked migrants from the BWI.

The only way it might go that way is if BWIs become such a potent political force in Canadian society, that they're perceived as lording it over the anglos in a fairly tangible way(like, for example, they get affirmative action laws passed forcing all white-owned businees to hire black people). In that unlikely scenario, some Quebec anglos might be willing to sign on for separation if that would mean no more blacks. Otherwise, the blacks would just be viewed as an annoyance, sort of a combination of "indians" and "newfies". A pain in the ass, but not worth destroying the country over.
 

Ramontxo

Donor
The Quebec sovereignty movement is pretty anti-immigrant IOTL because they view it as diluting the French heritage of Canada. This would probably turn at least the fringe of it openly racist as well


There is talk to this day of Turks and Caicos joining Canada, as the article posted earlier in this thread shows. If Britain seriously wants to divest itself of its Caribbean colonies, then the Caymans and BVI will go, too. There was a proposal to the Bermuda Assembly for them to join, and it looks like Trinidad and Tobago explored the idea as well. As the matter of fact it looks like nearly every British Caribbean colony pondered it in some level of seriousness at some point. It all depends hugely on when exactly the POD is, but if you go early enough to say 1917 when the then Canadian PM was seriously proposing annexation of a lot of Caribbean territory to London, they could theoretically end up with just about everything Britain holds in that part of the world, including Belize and Guyana.

Say certain islands in the south Atlantic are included as it would made sense for the Canadians to get with the lot the last remains of the British empire in the American Continent. Now we arrive to 1982 and the Argentinian Junta is in troubled waters. Have fun..
 
Say certain islands in the south Atlantic are included as it would made sense for the Canadians to get with the lot the last remains of the British empire in the American Continent. Now we arrive to 1982 and the Argentinian Junta is in troubled waters. Have fun..

That might be taking it a little far. In any case that would probably result in Britain and Canada both declaring war. The real powers in the world, most importantly the U.S., made the decision within hours of the Argentinian annexation that it wasn’t going to stand. Establishing the precedent that a NATO power could have pieces carved off of it by military invasion would have been very dangerous indeed.
 
If we're sticking with specifically post-1900, then yeah Bahamas and Bermuda are the first go-tos. I think there was talk of making Bermuda part of Nova Scotia due to connection between the churches.

British Honduras was interested in the 20th century in joining Canada.

I think if you exclude Jamaica and Trinidad (both of which were pretty into the idea of running themselves outside of the WIF) I think you could form a couple of provinces - the Windward Islands and the Leeward Islands. Barbados would be the only tricky island.
 
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