What if the British and the French won the war of 1812, or at least defeated the United States? What if Britain won Ft. McHenry and the US was defeated? What would happen in the Americas after that?
What if the British and the French won the war of 1812, or at least defeated the United States? What if Britain won Ft. McHenry and the US was defeated? What would happen in the Americas after that?
If there had been no Battle of New Orleans then the war would be been considered a draw between the US and Britain, tho the US certain got the worse end of it.
OK, let's completely validate P's preditction here...
IT WAS A DRAW! Tilting towards a Brit Victory! The US acheieved none of it's strategic objectives! No, holding on to what you have at the ouset is not victory in an attempted landgrab! Nobody claims that Russia won the Crimean War just because the Brits didn't annex Sevastapol!
No doubt about it. Historically it was a draw, but the US never really considers it as such in its popular history. Jackson's victory at New Orleans completely overshadows this. Without New Orleans there would be at least one war where the US did not redeem itself.
*CoughVietnamCough*
...But the fact of New Orleans changes nothing; the US drew-shading-to-lost, and was, by 1814, fairly glad to do so.
Quiet well aware of that. But the typical school text books post 1860s and definitely when I was in school didn't say that. The average American citizen, with their less than adequate education, probably remembers the burning of Washington, the siege of Fort McHenry and the Battle of New Orleans.
I haven't looked at a elementary or high school US history textbook lately and would be mildly surprised if things aren't that much different. I believe that the recent interest in US history has created more forthright retelling of history. But in 1900 it wasn't like that.
With the defeat of the British army and the death of Pakenham, Lambert decided that despite the arrival of reinforcements and a siege train for use against New Orleans, continuing the battle would be too costly. Within a week, all of the British troops had redeployed onto the ships and sailed away to Biloxi, Mississippi, where the British army attacked and captured Fort Bowyer on February 12. The British army was making preparations to attack Mobile when news arrived of the peace treaty.
What if the British and the French won the war of 1812, or at least defeated the United States? What if Britain won Ft. McHenry and the US was defeated? What would happen in the Americas after that?
I think everybody missed a very important point in the OP. I put it in bold.
This suppose that France and Uk are allied against USA in 1812.
The only reason for the USA not to be outright conquered is if both regard this theater as a minor factor in a much bigger war.
Because if the RN is transporting the Grande Armee to America, USA is toast.
I just wonder what is the latest non-ASb PoD which can get a France-Uk alliance against USA in 1812
I bolded it back in post 3.
?
How about just in general, an ASB Britian + France take on the world in 1800? Who wins?
You man Nelson, Napoleon and his marshalls and Wellington are on the same side?