Wi: British blitzkrieg

FBKampfer

Banned
All "blitzkrieg" is, is Prussian maneuver warfare combined with 1940's technology.

Give them a few marshals who religiously stick to the principles of the Prussian's doctrine, radios, and decent tank (which is probably going to be the hardest part for the brits pre 1944) and you have lightning war.

And an enemy to smash, of course.
 

Deleted member 1487

All "blitzkrieg" is, is Prussian maneuver warfare combined with 1940's technology.

Give them a few marshals who religiously stick to the principles of the Prussian's doctrine, radios, and decent tank (which is probably going to be the hardest part for the brits pre 1944) and you have lightning war.

And an enemy to smash, of course.
British cavalry doctrine coupled with radios, trucks, armored cars, and air support. Tanks would help break the trenches, all the rest would exploit because tanks were there yet and not really necessary. Horses might actually help in fact, the Soviets were able to make cavalry-mechanized groups work in WW2:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cavalry_mechanized_group
 

Deleted member 1487

Can't speak for pdf27 but the linked article contains the following telling quote:
"Mechanization would, in short, supply the speed and fire power that the foot-borne Sturmtruppen had lacked."
To which my comment is, not with 1919 technology it wouldn't. The vehicles would surely have broken down or run out of fuel before they could achieve and maintain the kind of deep penetrations that Blitzkrieg would require. Instead, the Allies would most likely have had to revert to the iterative attritional methods of 1918 rather than creating a successful example of a new operational paradigm.
I should add that if you want British blitzkrieg-style operations a better contender would be the conquest of Palestine in 1918 - using horses not tanks to achieve deep penetrations and encirclements.
https://translate.google.com/transl....wikipedia.org/wiki/Medium_Mark_D&prev=search
Seems like the Mark D might have had the legs to make things work.
 

FBKampfer

Banned
British cavalry doctrine coupled with radios, trucks, armored cars, and air support. Tanks would help break the trenches, all the rest would exploit because tanks were there yet and not really necessary. Horses might actually help in fact, the Soviets were able to make cavalry-mechanized groups work in WW2:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cavalry_mechanized_group


Depends on who their fighting. And where.

If they try that again the Germans in Europe, and they're likely to get their noses bloodied. Japan? Just not enough room to maneuver. There's all of three highways and jungles suck for horses.

In the desert, though, this might work quite well.
 

Deleted member 1487

Depends on who their fighting. And where.

If they try that again the Germans in Europe, and they're likely to get their noses bloodied. Japan? Just not enough room to maneuver. There's all of three highways and jungles suck for horses.

In the desert, though, this might work quite well.
That's the thing, in 1918 the German army was pretty shattered, so it was arguably possible due to the morale situation and attrition they had already experienced. In early 1918 or before you're right, the technology wasn't there and the Germans could bring firepower to bear quicker than the attacker.
 
For me Blitzkrieg was always operational maneuver involving divisions /Korps and armies designed to collapse the enemy army and exploiting the panic that ensued, and not tanks/combined arms tactical attacks etc . Supposedly the first execution of Blitzkrieg was British invasion of Palestine in 1918.
 
What pods would be needed to have Britain come up with armoured warfare before ww2?
I see you've excited the resident contrarians :rolleyes:

A few things needed for a British rapid offensive force on large scale:
1) Replace the idea of the cruiser and infantry tank with the precursor of the MBT. Essentially something with a capable dual role HE/AT gun/shell, sufficient armour, speed and endurance. POD here is engine development.
2) Mechanized infantry. Britain had pioneered the concept with the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_IX_tank and bodged it with https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kangaroo_(armoured_personnel_carrier). So, now we need a proper box on tracks with speed and endurance to keep up with the above tanks. Something like the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M75_armored_personnel_carrier
3) Radio for both of the above, and any other vehicle that needs one. And SOPs for their use.
4) CAS strike aircraft (with radios for coordinating CAS). Get the Typhoon and the 3" RP into earlier service, or at least the Hurribomber.
5) Self propelled artillery with speed and endurance to match the tanks and APCs above. Something like the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birch_gun but better
6) Fuel and logistics vehicles and support to keep up with the above demand

And lastly, unless you're fighting on Albion soil, you need vast amphibious assault and littoral fighting and logistical capabilities.
 
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To see what a skilled British tactician could accomplish given the resources, have a look at the 1940 brigade strength battle in John Master's 'Man of War' - he fights a German armoured brigade to a standstill despite only being a Major- A/Lt Col.
 
I've often wondered how things would have turned out had the British Army opted for the excellent for its time Vickers E 6 ton light tank instead of the overgrown tankettes that were the Vickers mk I to VI light tanks. Assuming for the moment they followed the same development path as the Soviet T26 and Polish 7TP and were sent to France with either the 3pdr gun used on the Vickers Medium tanks or the newish 2pdr, and they were deployed in the same numbers as the machine gun light tanks actually were, they'd have chewed through any tank the Germans had. Of course like all light tanks if they're hit themselves they're toast.
 
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