WI : Britannia was only a Roman Ally/Client State

Inspired a little bit by the WI the Roman Empire hadn't conquered Britannia.

The premise is simply, what if, instead of outright conquest, the Romans supported the creation of a genuine independent state, or subservient state in Britannia. Perhaps to exile an overly popular eastern general, or as a place to send Roman criminals.

Lets say this is the plan from the outset. Having a full Roman province is deemed impractical and overly expensive - but piracy from the Isles in inexcusable. Using the same justification as OTL - the reinstatement of Verica, but with only one legion of 5000 and auxilaries of 15000 (or an army of 20k volunteers) - a quarter of the size of OTL. Instead of it automatically being Aulus Plautius, the offer is made from the outset that this is a one-way ticket. Perhaps it is still taken up be a senator (I can't see why), or more likely a centurion, or otherwise military man.

Even to begin with, could this army establish itself a state in Britannia, and if it is unable to garner additional resources from the Empire - how does it support itself, how does it adapt to its circumstances, and what impact does it have on the Empire itself?

I won't lie, I might be underestimating the resources required, and overestimating the willingness of the Romans to undertake this sort of scheme. But if the Empire isn't bogged down with Britannia - I can see it having a stronger Rhine border, and less costs in the West - enabling some more success in the East, whilst a Romano-Britannic state would have to be more careful in establishing itself.
 
I don't know that you could sell a legion on the idea of a one-way ticket. Being a Roman citizen means a lot to your average legionnaire. You could do it obliquely...there were many units who were effectively satellites with missions like protecting a Roman trading posts that eventually became permanently garrisoned there, but they weren't sold that way at the outset. Remember that exile was considered just below death as a punishment in the Roman consciousness.

You could maybe set up a volunteer legion, because there would certainly be more than enough legionnaires walking around who don't care much. Or maybe some kind of Dirty Dozen/French Foreign legion of condemned soldiers. But to send an as-is legion, the bulk of them are likely to revolt at the idea of being kicked out of the empire.

Edit: there's also the fact that Britain was considered pretty much hell on earth to most Romans, a cold wet dark island at the edge of the world famous for human sacrifice and endemic tribal warfare.
 
Last edited:
So only a Volunteer Legion would work. Perhaps combined with the Condemned Legion. (Oh, what a fun pairing, cons and volunteers)

Perhaps to sell it to volunteers is to apply to some form of "benevolent" racism in their culture. Go to Britannia, make it civilised, and it is yours.

@darthfanta do you mean any form of force - i.e. volunteers and cons?

Right, lets say that the volunteers are the only one sent - where cons are then sent to as an alternative to execution, what about sustainability. I mean, manpower is basically a combination of volunteer decendents, imported cons and their children, and whatever locals can be convinced to sign up.

How about pay/motivation? I'm guessing we aren't exactly going to see soldiers fighting without getting paid - so what sort of pay are we looking at? Short of Wool and Tin exports (and maybe coal later on), AFAIK the Roman-Era British resources aren't that financially viable. Unless of course Wool is developed intensely by the Legion-State.
 
So only a Volunteer Legion would work. Perhaps combined with the Condemned Legion. (Oh, what a fun pairing, cons and volunteers)

Perhaps to sell it to volunteers is to apply to some form of "benevolent" racism in their culture. Go to Britannia, make it civilised, and it is yours.

@darthfanta do you mean any form of force - i.e. volunteers and cons?

Right, lets say that the volunteers are the only one sent - where cons are then sent to as an alternative to execution, what about sustainability. I mean, manpower is basically a combination of volunteer decendents, imported cons and their children, and whatever locals can be convinced to sign up.

How about pay/motivation? I'm guessing we aren't exactly going to see soldiers fighting without getting paid - so what sort of pay are we looking at? Short of Wool and Tin exports (and maybe coal later on), AFAIK the Roman-Era British resources aren't that financially viable. Unless of course Wool is developed intensely by the Legion-State.
5% of the Roman army is a large number.

I can't imagine you can scrap together enough volunteers either.Imagine trying to get close 5% of the US army to volunteer to a one way trip to Antarctica where you have a strong chance of dying.So most people would have to be forced to go on the expedition,and being an angry, heavily armed group with little to nothing to lose concentrated in one place before they can be sent to Britannia,I have no doubt they would try to march on Rome.
 
The premise is simply, what if, instead of outright conquest, the Romans supported the creation of a genuine independent state, or subservient state in Britannia. Perhaps to exile an overly popular eastern general, or as a place to send Roman criminals.
It would seem an awfully long way to turn Britain as a client, and certain to backfire ("hey let's put all criminal or ambitious thugs all in one place close to one of our wealthiest provinces, there's no way they'll raid or invade the shit out of us") when it would be far more easier to pursue the pre-conquest policy.

Aka, keeping southern Britton or Belgian states in Britain as client as per OTL (and as existed in Germania), thanks to economical and political support, and some military intervention.

Perhaps to sell it to volunteers is to apply to some form of "benevolent" racism in their culture. Go to Britannia, make it civilised, and it is yours.
You mean, actively weaponizing rogue elements at the edge of your empire in a piss-poor land close to wealthy provinces you own AND deep-throating them with the idea of "if you want it, take it by right of arms"?
 
The premise is simply, what if, instead of outright conquest, the Romans supported the creation of a genuine independent state, or subservient state in Britannia. Perhaps to exile an overly popular eastern general, or as a place to send Roman criminals.

This is not how a roman client state works. Actually it is fully impossible (ASB), that the romans would ever consider such a measure.

One or more british client kingdoms in the South, in order to help avoiding piracy is ok. But I guess this is not what you proposed.
 
One or more british client kingdoms in the South, in order to help avoiding piracy is ok. But I guess this is not what you proposed.

Ya. Why would the Romans want to encourage a united kingdom in Britain. Multiple client kingdoms, that they could play off each other, using friendly clients to squash ones that turned unfriendly (new king comes to the throne, wants real independence, whatever).

Much cheaper that way. Just throw the odd subsidy and such to the favoured kingdoms, and gently encourage division. That way they'll never be a threat to Rome.
 
What about one of Britannias kings recruiting say a half a cohort of discharged soldiers as a bodyguard and training cadre? From that he could build a force strong enough to defeat his neighbours and build a recognisable country. Maybe the king had been educated/held hotage for his father's good behavior and wasn't satisfied with the state of his fathers kingdom when he inherited the throne and wanted it to become more civilised.
 
Here's an idea: The British king Tincomarus was overthrown in 8 AD and fled to Rome as a political refuge. Emperor Augustus recognized his brother Eppillus' right to rule over the Atrebates instead of deposing and reinstating Tinocamarus. What if Augustus chose differently and decides to bring the full might of Rome? Eppillus rallies the other British tribes to resist Rome but the disorganized British hordes are nothing compared to the Roman legions, ultimately falling. Tincomarus is granted the title King of Britannia by the Emperor's decree, expected to look after Roman interests on the island: his kingdom is greatly expanded to include the kingdoms ruled by those who had joined Eppillus' futile resistance against the Roman invasion. Despite his title, he's only seen as first amongst equals (at best) by the remaining petty kings who constantly make trouble for him and his successors. Rome doesn't mind because it wants to make sure this British kingdom doesn't grow too powerful.
 
Top