Hell, I'd give you engagements between American & British soldiers through proxy wars. But outright war? Not happening.
Perhaps - but the Poles had every reason to be suspicious. The invasion of Czechoslovakia started off with similarly "reasonable" terms based on the rights of ethnic Germans, and culminated in occupation and a loss of sovereignty for all other Czech citizens.
With this (and the grand plans for Eastern colonization in Mein Kampf) in mind, it's difficult to condemn the Polish position or call them paranoid nationalists.
Danzig was mostly a matter of prestige and I believe Poland could have given it up, after Gdynia was built. But not the Corridor.
The problem however is that Hitler had not simply demanded, say, a customs-free passage of goods to East Prussia overland through Poland. He had demanded such a link to be extra-territorial. In other words, it would be something that impinged on Polish sovereignty. It would have been German territory.
Interestingly enough such an arrangement would have in turn cut off the small coastal Polish area around Gdynia, but that never seems to be a problem.
Eh, I was thinking more along the lines of decolonization, aiding forces with experienced commanders, modern equipment, and other supplies.I have a harder time seeing this proxy war than a straight out war cause by something dumb. Did you have a scenario in mind? I can't see Latin America, because the USA would just go to war. I can't see the PI, because the UK probably does not want them. China is a bit hard, without some radical POD like the USA claiming the Yangtze as its exclusive Sphere of influence. Only thing is Africa is Liberia for the USA, and it is not worth much to the UK.
Originally posted by b12ox
Actually, IIRC Poland once entertained an idea of an exterritorial link between Germany and East Prussia, in 1920s, I believe, during Polish-German customs war. It failed, since Germany hoped to pressure Poland to make bigger concessions, and Poles themselves weren't so enthusiastic about whole idea anyway.
Problem is Poland had no reason to trust Germany. Especially Hitler who broke most (if not every) of his promises. During that time Poles talked a lot to German diplomats, who sometimes suggested them that "Black Sea is also a sea" or offered Lithuania and its ports. That could have meant only one thing - Germans wanted the Corridor back. And no Poland government could have accepted that - milions of Poles back under German rule, enormous investments (Gdynia, railway transporting Polish main export good - Silesian coal) under German control. Impossible.
Danzig was mostly a matter of prestige and I believe Poland could have given it up, after Gdynia was built. But not the Corridor.
I am not talking the chunk of land between East Prussia and Germany. He wanted extra-territorial road through Poland. Everyone would want a road in his place. He wanted to build an Autobahn and railroad. So why not go with it if it was an honest offer. Lets just put aside silly suspitions and give Hitler the road. If he takes, Poland lose nothing and Hitler looses ethical reasons to invade. If he takes and Poland is still invided, Poland looses what it would loose anyway.
whether OTL or ATL, Hitler probes Poland and Polands refusal to go with the offer gives Hitler good pretext to invade.Are you refferring to OTL, or the ATL in which there were no British guarantees (which in turn implies no occupation of the rump Czechoslovakia with which Germany threw away any pretense of honesty?)
If Hitler hadn't gobbled up Bohemia and Moravia, he might have found a more receptive audience for his demands for danzig and the highway/railways to east prussia by sticking to his ~redress versailles/brings germans back into germany~ rhetoric which had been reasonable enough that the great powers didn't feel need to intervene
then again without bohemia and moravia the german economy falls apart in 1939 unless they demobilize and drastically scale back their military build up
Could it be that after Munich, Chamberlain was so upset that he was ready to do anything to Poland even though the decision might not be (at that time) a good idea?
Could it be that after Munich, Chamberlain was so upset that he was ready to do anything to Poland even though the decision might not be (at that time) a good idea?
whether OTL or ATL, Hitler probes Poland and Polands refusal to go with the offer gives Hitler good pretext to invade.
The Czech republic is another case. It blows Hitlers credentailas, but the offer to Poland is still no less reasonable.
Perhaps the Poles should have thought it over earlier, when they participated in the Czech invasion. It would be a good start to do so.
He wasn't asking for permition to invade. He wanted to build effitient transit to supply Eastern Prussia with coal and other stuff while Danzig citisens wanted back in Reich. It was their city and their desition what mattered. No matter how one twist it, the road was cool. Irrepective of Hitlers credentials, of what he had done to Czechs and Jews and what he put in Main Kampf.Demanding Danzig and the transit route would have, on its own, been a fairly reasonable demand. (In the ATL this ‘offer’ could well have been accepted.) But IOTL, by the time he issued those demands, Hitler had robbed himself of the option of justifying any invasion, and demonstrated that he was NOT acting reasonably.
He wasn't asking for permition to invade. He wanted to build effitient transit to supply Eastern Prussia with coal and other stuff while Danzig citisens wanted back in Reich. It was their city and their desition what mattered. No matter how one twist it, the road was cool. Irrepective of Hitlers credentials, of what he had done to Czechs and Jews and what he put in Main Kampf.
I for the life of me can not understand why Hitlers offer was not met and the road allowed.
that's it.It doesn't have to cut Poland in two. There is a technology solution. I am sure you have seen interstates where it is elevate for many miles. While it would have been hugely expensive, Hitler could have built a railroad/road that leaves the Polish road system intact, and separate. Elevate the RR above the valleys combined with tunnels if possible, combine with going around population centers is quit workable. It has been proposed for the West Bank and Gaza, and if the two sides had enough faith in each other, it would work.