WI Britain seized Taiwan in Opium War I or II?

raharris1973

Gone Fishin'
WI Britain seized Taiwan in Opium War I or II? I'll also offer a second variant:
Britain seizes Taiwan, France seizes Hainan.

Would British Taiwan end up culturally as a giant Hong Kong with alot of garden space?

Or might it be like a giant Singapore? Multi-ethnic, with large numbers of south asian workers brought in for tea or opium cultivation.


Would a French Hainan end up with a large Vietnamese as well as Chinese and aboriginal population?
 
XFE

XFE

IMHO it would take more than the opium wars to take Taiwan. The Qing was already reluctant to cede Hong Kong, which is tiny compared to Taiwan.
 
XFE

XFE

B-29_Bomber said:
Then the British fight until they capture the Emperor or until the Emperor saw sense.
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I would say a long, drawn out land war with the Qing in the 1840s would be detrimental to Britain's goals of colonial expansion. It would just cost so much more and be so more bloody than OTL.
 

Gloss

Xianfeng Emperor said:
IMHO it would take more than the opium wars to take Taiwan. The Qing was already reluctant to cede Hong Kong, which is tiny compared to Taiwan.
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Not really though, Taiwan was one of the most rebellious place, also if the British invade I don´t the Qing would really go and try to demand such disloyal place back.
 
TheCoolCucumber

TheCoolCucumber

Will, I admit that I don't know a whole lot about the opium wars but I would assume that the British might pay even more attention to Asia than in OTL which would result in some massive butterflys itself. Also, if the boxer rebellion or a similar conflict breaks out which I think it would then the British will be in a much better position to intervene with a sizable garrison across the Taiwan straits.
 
B-29_Bomber

B-29_Bomber

Banned
Xianfeng Emperor said:
I would say a long, drawn out land war with the Qing in the 1840s would be detrimental to Britain's goals of colonial expansion. It would just cost so much more and be so more bloody than OTL.
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Except, it's my perception that the British were doing quite well against Qing Chinese forces.
 
XFE

XFE

B-29_Bomber said:
Except, it's my perception that the British were doing quite well against Qing Chinese forces.
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They were because they didn't have to march their armies all the way inland and allow the Qing to fully exploit their numerical advantage.
 
Kome

Kome

I think Ceylon is the only thing it can be compared to developmentally. Taiwan can't compete with the trade ports (that's the entire reason of getting the trade ports in the first place), so it's really only useful for plantations or as a transit point to the north. The latter has its own issues since Northern China, Korea, and Japan were all closed nations (again, the entire reason for the treaty ports).

Formosa Planters Rifles anyonr?
 
Avrorrange

Avrorrange

Xianfeng Emperor said:
They were because they didn't have to march their armies all the way inland.
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IOTL,the Manchus didn't really have much choice in terms of what land and how much land was ceded,their money supply through the grand canal was basically cut.In my opinion,they were just being obstinate and could be forced to cede vast lands if pressed hard enough.
 

scholar

Banned
darthfanta said:
IOTL,the Manchus didn't really have much choice in terms of what land and how much land was ceded,their money supply through the grand canal was basically cut.In my opinion,they were just being obstinate and could be forced to cede vast lands if pressed hard enough.
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And immediately be replaced, or see rebellions spread up everywhere near the ceded regions.
 
XFE

XFE

darthfanta said:
IOTL,the Manchus didn't really have much choice in terms of what land and how much land was ceded,their money supply through the grand canal was basically cut.In my opinion,they were just being obstinate and could be forced to cede vast lands if pressed hard enough.
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Wouldn't the process of further pressing the Qing militarily cost too much for the British? And wouldn't that in turn defeat the purpose of establishing an outpost in east Asia?
 
Avrorrange

Avrorrange

Xianfeng Emperor said:
Wouldn't the process of further pressing the Qing militarily cost too much for the British? And wouldn't that in turn defeat the purpose of establishing an outpost in east Asia?
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They can beat reparations out of the Qing.Overall,the situation was much more desperate for the Manchus than the British.Just imagine what would happen if a government isn't getting a large portion of it's taxes and food supply,that's exactly what was happening to the Manchus.
 

galanx

Xianfeng Emperor said:
No...what sources tell you that? Koxinga was 200+ years from the opium wars.
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"Taiwan: A Political History" by Denny Roy, among others:
Not surprisingly, insurrections against mainland authorities were frequent- a total of 159 sizable rebellions during the period of Qing rule, including three particularly large "Great Rebellions" in 1714, 1787, and 1833. Mainlanders commonly said of Taiwan "Every three years an uprising, every five years a rebellion".
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ZhugeLiang

Assuming that this does happen, and Britain somehow takes it - assuming that butterflies are minimal, what territories would Japan take instead? Would it disqualify an Anglo-Japanese alliance?
 

Isaac Beach

Banned
ZhugeLiang said:
Assuming that this does happen, and Britain somehow takes it - assuming that butterflies are minimal, what territories would Japan take instead? Would it disqualify an Anglo-Japanese alliance?
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Oooor would it facilitate it? If Taiwan does prove useless to the British they could probably sell it to the Japanese for a hefty sum and some preferential trade ports. Which could flourish into something more?
 
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