WI: Britain and France Don't Declare War On Germany in 1939

What if instead of declaring war on Germany in 1939 after it invaded and annexed western Poland, Britain and France remain neutral and allow the action to take place?
 
The Germans are better prepared for the war, as OTL they weren't that ready for WW2 in 1939. The war will probably start over a different issue than OTL, but nonetheless will start within the next 5 years.
 

Deleted member 1487

Both government's fall immediately and subsequent governments declare war. If for some reason they don't there are riots in the streets and both become massive international jokes for not honoring their guarantees to Poland. If they don't give those guarantees in May 1939 they probably fall early for not taking action to stand up to Germany; the publics of Britain and France would not tolerate further German expansion without war, even if the governments of Britain and France weren't keen on fighting in 1939.
 
Assuming that the people permit their governments to get away with such inaction, the Germans would be at a greater advantage as military preparation is slower to progress in those two countries. However, the Germans were all about expansionism at that time and they would have eventually turned their eyes to Western Europe and at that point in time France would have fallen and, the English, afraid that they would be next, would declare war and begin preparations. Even if France and England did not declare war over Poland, the war would likely have caught up to them and progressed the same way.
 
Both government's fall immediately and subsequent governments declare war. If for some reason they don't there are riots in the streets and both become massive international jokes for not honoring their guarantees to Poland. If they don't give those guarantees in May 1939 they probably fall early for not taking action to stand up to Germany; the publics of Britain and France would not tolerate further German expansion without war, even if the governments of Britain and France weren't keen on fighting in 1939.

Why die for Danzig? I think that, if pre-war agreements had not been made, no government would fall and no war would be declared over Poland. Chamberlain and Daladier would continue, until such time as Germany invades a Western European country.
 
Hitler attacks the Anglo-French in 1940.

Why die for Danzig?

The German attack on Poland was the casus belli, but the real objective of the war was to eliminate the threat of a belligerent Germany. Poland was merely the trip-wire, the red line.
 
After Prauge March 1939 and Crystal Night November 1938 it was obvious the people running Germany weren't anybody that could be dealt with, were reckless, and going to take whatever the could get away with.

If they don't do guarantees, Germany will take Poland or bits of Poland with threats of force. From the viewpoint of March 1939 I can see where threating Germany with "we will declare war if you take anything more" would be a reasonable course of action. If it works and Germany stops great. But otherwise Germany has pillaged another country for their military supplies and can loot the place for a couple more years of ramped up military spending. Plus Poland has sources of oil and minerals to help break any future blockade.

But since we know how things ended up OTL and with hindsight:

Maybe instead of a guarantee to particular countries a "state of emergency" could be declared in March 1939, that basically signals for France and Britain "full on war production", partial mobilization but no actual war. Relations both diplomatic and trade would be cut with Germany completely.

When Germany starts bullying Poland, Britain and France tell Poland they won't be ready for war until 1941 but there is little they can do that they already aren't doing.

If Germany then justs ingests Poland and invades the Soviet Union in 40 or 41 without attacking the west. So much the better. Join in when the time is right. If Germany attacks you anyway in 1940 not too much worse off than OTL.
 
Would it be possible to have a better Operation Himmler or, even more absurd, have someone in Poland like, drink lead and actually attack Germany? Sort of a preemptive strike after correctly convincing themselves Hitler would attack them next
 
What if instead of declaring war on Germany in 1939 after it invaded and annexed western Poland, Britain and France remain neutral and allow the action to take place?

Explain HOW this is going to happen, and then we can discuss the consequences. As other people have pointed out, this a HUGE change.
 
Isn't he far more likely to go after Stalin first?

If you actually read Mein Kampf (which I admit is a difficult thing to propose... Hitler was a lot of things but a good writer was not one of them), Hitler lays into the French as much as he lays into the Russians, calling the French the natural enemies of the Germans and stating flatly that they'd have to be crushed before Germany could achieve her destiny. Militarily, he actually portrays Russia as an afterthought - a bankrupt regime of cultureless barbarians squatting in the ruins of a civilization whose only greatness was transplanted onto it by its now usurped ruling class (Hitler was fond of pointing to all the German blood in the Czars). Hitler actually wanted to invade France immediately after the war with Poland, and was only stopped by his horrified generals stalling until winter arrived. It's pretty clear that whatever his immediate reaction might have been to the Allies' declarations of war (it appears the Ribbentrop and some of the military leadership had fooled themselves into thinking the Allies would back down again), Hitler had been itching to have a go at France for years.

Hitler was also fully aware of the increasing pace of French re-armament, something he harangued his generals with repeatedly in October of 1939 when they pleaded with him for more time to rest and plan. Basically, so long as France was mobilizing and re-arming, Hitler was always going to push to attack them as soon as possible.
 

nastle

Banned
Hitler attacks the Anglo-French in 1940.



The German attack on Poland was the casus belli, but the real objective of the war was to eliminate the threat of a belligerent Germany. Poland was merely the trip-wire, the red line.
Exactly, they didn't do anything to help Poland

Hell if the French attacked from the WEst , the germans didn't have the forces in 1939 to fight a 2 front war
 
My take on this is that without World War II beginning here, Germany is able to create puppet states out of eastern Europe with much greater ease. By 1942, Hitler still launches an invasion of the Soviet Union. This is crushed by the end of 1946 when the Russians march on Berlin. They still corral eastern Europe into communist satellite states.

Japan doesn't expand much in the Pacific outside of China either.
 
Isn't he far more likely to go after Stalin first?

No. This is Hitler. He wanted a secure northern and western flank before going after Russia. Plus keeping Narvik so he'd have Swedish iron ore year round, and he wanted the factories of Belgium and France. Plus French wolfram for his U-boats.

Besides, launching a sneak attack on the French is just in his nature. He'd expect it from them. And he can't be traipsing into the depths of Russia while the untouched French Army is sitting on the Rhine.

Exactly, they didn't do anything to help Poland

Hell if the French attacked from the West , the germans didn't have the forces in 1939 to fight a 2 front war

If the French had sufficiently mobilized enough to attack (highly unlikely, the Poles, with no armor, went down very fast), the defenses of the not yet stripped and still at this time state-of-the-art West Wall (no Maginot Line, but enough), their badly unprepared Third Republic Army would have fallen all over themselves trying to cross those barriers, thinly manned as they were.

My take on this is that without World War II beginning here, Germany is able to create puppet states out of eastern Europe with much greater ease. By 1942, Hitler still launches an invasion of the Soviet Union. This is crushed by the end of 1946 when the Russians march on Berlin. They still corral eastern Europe into communist satellite states.

Even if Hitler doesn't attack the West in 1940 (!?), he still can't mobilize enough for a 1940 invasion of Russia. If he does so, the French attack on the West Wall becomes more viable every day. If he waits for 1941, French and British Army rearmament is nearly completed (in terms of there being no U-Boat War) and the West Wall is even more threatened.

If Hitler waits until 1942 the Soviet Second Five Year Plan is completed and Stalin is waiting for him. Especially with the West quiet and Hitler re-arming for two straight years.

Japan doesn't expand much in the Pacific outside of China either.

Only if FDR says "OK!", and launches no embargoes.
 
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