WI britain adopts the .256 cartridge post boer war?

Apologises if this should be strictly A.S.B

The boar war revealed inadequacies in the .303 round eventualy resoved with a new bullet shape. Ignoring little things like cost, or doctrine could a new Enfield have been built using either a British version of the 7mm mauser or the .256 cartridge?

If so how would it have performed during the first world war?
Is a 12 round magazine reasonable with the troops carrying 6 round clips (charger).

Keeping a bolt action with a fixed box magazine, I ask because I want someone to muddy the waters in my ASB timeline as things are just a little to cosy between Britain and Russia at the moment, and I have a restless W S Churchill in charge of army procurement.

Any comments or advice gratefully received
 
The boar war revealed inadequacies in the .303 round eventualy resoved with a new bullet shape. Ignoring little things like cost, or doctrine could a new Enfield have been built using either a British version of the 7mm mauser or the .256 cartridge?
It was planned; the cartridge was the .276 Enfield to be fired from the Pattern 1913 Enfield rifle. The kinks hadn't been worked out by the time war broke out in 1914 and the project was sidelined never to be resumed.
 
Also understand the think at the time, "We still have millions of bullets, what are we going to do with all this ammunition?" Especially for another, and at that time seen as a lighter caliber. They modified the 303 bullet to make it more efficient as well. The Brits, like the Americans at that time thought bigger holes were better as well. It meant more blood loss and trauma to whoever they shoot. Both had a history of dealing with enemies that would not have stopped and did not stop with smaller bullets.
 
I forget to include the post that triggered my curiosity,

Small arms on board?

Arisaka Type 38 rifles in .256 British?
Lanchester SMG in 9mm?
Enfield No.2 Service Revolver in .38 caliber?
Mk.1 Mills Bomb (shellac coated No.36M)

Bit of a puzzle why the revolver isn't also in 9x19mm parabellum...oh here's a Browning Hi-power!
These and the ship's sick bay (including library) will have a big impact on the Crimean war. Second Opium war results in larger Hong Kong territories? Will there be a Sepoy Mutany and consequent British Raj?

I've used rifles from the start of her service, that were soon withdrawn from service and sent to Russia. Because as every Space Bat knows, the .256 British is a better round than the .303 British. Ahem. Certainly lighter and cheaper, good enough and with much less recoil.


And this article I found on the web.
http://milpas.cc/rifles/ZFiles/Misc/256 british/256 british.htm


It was planned; the cartridge was the .276 Enfield to be fired from the Pattern 1913 Enfield rifle. The kinks hadn't been worked out by the time war broke out in 1914 and the project was sidelined never to be resumed.

Whoops this is mentioned in the above article but I didn't do the arithmetic to connect it with 7mm:frown:

Thanks Dave
 
One of the 'kinks' was that heavy loads of Cordite and small bore resulted in massive erosion in the throat from the hot burning powder strands.

The trick would be to have the Brits switch to CorditeMD a lot sooner, or use Nitrocellulose based powders instead, like France and Germany did and later the US, did after finding how bad the 6mm Lee Navy burned barrels on the original powder

British stuck with Cordite due to its low cost, and was more temperature stable in the tropics
 
One of the 'kinks' was that heavy loads of Cordite and small bore resulted in massive erosion in the throat from the hot burning powder strands.

The trick would be to have the Brits switch to CorditeMD a lot sooner, or use Nitrocellulose based powders instead, like France and Germany did and later the US, did after finding how bad the 6mm Lee Navy burned barrels on the original powder

British stuck with Cordite due to its low cost, and was more temperature stable in the tropics

'More temperature stable in the tropics' is actually a good motivation for an army whose primary role was controlling/defending an empire that was mostly hot places.
 
'More temperature stable in the tropics' is actually a good motivation for an army whose primary role was controlling/defending an empire that was mostly hot places.

But getting one third of the barrel Life vs what the other nations were getting was quite the trade off, as well.

Plus the US did enough in the Caribbean and Philippines, that was an issue, plus needing it for cooler areas
 
Thanks for the responses

Gathering the feedback together the answer to the what if is.

Britain spends time and money developing a new rifle with no clear advantage over the SMLE, and would be adopting a smaller calibre when the consensus seems to be that bigger was better. As the first world war had not happened and the boar war had revealed shortcomings with distance shooting. As the assault rifle was some 40 years away the adoption of a round possibly better suited for such a weapon makes no sense, and so with out some sort of A.S.B event as a driver there is no reason for Britain to adopt a completely new round when changing the bullet in the SMLE for a lighter and more aerodynamic round is cheaper, quicker and fits better with military thinking.

If it had been adopted is performance would not have been a significant improvement and could have been much worse.

I hope that this is an accurate conclusion to draw and effectevly answeres my what if.

Thanks Dave
 

Glyndwr01

Banned
Thanks for the responses

Gathering the feedback together the answer to the what if is.

Britain spends time and money developing a new rifle with no clear advantage over the SMLE, and would be adopting a smaller calibre when the consensus seems to be that bigger was better. As the first world war had not happened and the boar war had revealed shortcomings with distance shooting. As the assault rifle was some 40 years away the adoption of a round possibly better suited for such a weapon makes no sense, and so with out some sort of A.S.B event as a driver there is no reason for Britain to adopt a completely new round when changing the bullet in the SMLE for a lighter and more aerodynamic round is cheaper, quicker and fits better with military thinking.

If it had been adopted is performance would not have been a significant improvement and could have been much worse.

I hope that this is an accurate conclusion to draw and effectevly answeres my what if.

Thanks Dave

Include a self loading rifle in the new caliber?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Farquhar-Hill_rifle
 
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:) Thanks for the link, within my ASB two empires time line farquhar and hill are partnered with Thornecroft and have developed a self loading bullpup rifle (far too expensive for general distribution)
Ideas, and experimental rifles existed but with the technology unproven adoption appears to belong to ASB and even then some future knowledge would be needed as a driver.
I am still left believing that while a bolt action rifle in 6.5 mm was perfectly possible, it wouldn't have offered many advantages over the SMLE and could have created several problems.
Thanks Dave
 
7mm mauser was thought to be an extremely good round and as for wounding ability called .275 Rigby it was a favourite hunting round regulary used to shoot Elephants for the Ivory so no dilution of effect. As for 12 round mags I dont think so its the same length as .303 and only slimmer because it was rimless 12.20mm base diameter as opposed to 13.7 for .303 so if your keeping the same SMLE magazine 11 rounds fit but odd numbers arent possible in a charger loaded rifle.
 
To reiterate what has been noted above. IOTL the .303 SMLE was to be replaced by the Pattern 1913 Enfield which was, essentially, a .276 Mauser. Were it not for the Great War that would have happened. Instead it was made in .303 for supply reasons as the Pattern 1914 Enfield and then by the USA in .30-06 as the Pattern 1917 Enfield.
 
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