As per usual, I'm wondering about the third Beatles film. Had Epstein not died, I wonder whether he would have found something acceptable for the group, or whether he would have assumed Yellow Submarine would satisfy the contract.
WI: Brian Epstein lives?
- Thread starter Romantic Nihilist
- Start date
I don't know what take he would have had on "Yellow Submarine" in how it turned out, which was a Beatles film without any involvement of the Beatles. "Yellow Submarine" would have satisfied UA had the Beatles been actively involved in it, rather than having others do the voices and doing a last minute, unplanned cameo filmed for the end. The way it turned out was a bit of a gamble that didn't pay off. I honestly don't know if Epstein went along with the idea that a film about but not involving the Beatles would have satisfied the contract, or if that plan of lack of involvement only came afterward when it finally started production.
What may happen, quickly perusing my internet sources, is that "Yellow Submarine" may go into production before "Magical Mystery Tour". That being if the film were truly delayed by Epstein's death in the OTL. (They could also both go into production around the same time, if the Beatles aren't actively involved in the former). If things go as they did with "Yellow Submarine" not satisfying the UA contract, then the group may attempt to make the "Magical Mystery Tour" concept into a feature film, much as "Let it Be" was originally planned as a TV movie before it was realized it could finish out the film contract.
That could go a few ways: either it's looked after more carefully, perhaps scripted, perhaps quite different from the original concept in order to be commercial under Epstein's watch, and things go better. Or perhaps its all that the actual thing was, just on a larger scale.
All that said, once the contract is finished out, the Beatles could do other television projects and films. But I doubt they'd attach themselves to anything like that UA film contract again.
The problem with scripting Magical Mystery Tour is that it would violate the entire spirit and point of the exercise. Magical Mystery Tour was just a bad idea, and I do not think Epstein could have fixed it without essentially betraying the heart of McCartney's premise. According to Hunter Davies, Epstein's relationship with McCartney was the weakest, and he was consistently, at least by 1967, concerned with keeping McCartney happy. That suggests he would not have tried to have Magical Mystery Tour detour from McCartney's. vision. That is a bit of a shame, because clearly, that vision did not work. It's also a shame because 1967 would have been a great year for a Beatle film, given all the hype and success surrounding Pepper.
I think that's where Brian's relationship with John comes into play.
Not to play one off against the other - but via John, Brian could plant the idea that an unscripted concept just wouldn't work - Paul may not listen to Brian, but he might listen to Brian AND John saying the same thing.
If that makes the concept of Magical Mystery Tour more successful and gets John more engaged in the project, all the better for the future of The Beatles.
Maybe they'd have ended up making the full Sgt Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band film/video, probably would've done very well in cinemas at the time, and could've been a critical success in an arty-farty way.
Also, wasn't there talk of an Alice in Wonderland, and a Lord of the Rings film?
Lord of the Rings, yes, but it never went anyone beyond some brain storming. JRR Tolkein still held the film rights and refused to allow it. I've never heard anything about Alice in Wonderland. Glass Onion and I had that as the Beatles film following McCartney's death in "End of the Beginning" (side note: we should continue that someday).
The closest thing was a TV movie Ringo was in in 1985. That and "I Am The Walrus", and some assorted Lewis Carroll inspired imagery elsewhere over the course of the Beatles' career.
Lord of the Rings, yes, but it never went anyone beyond some brain storming. JRR Tolkein still held the film rights and refused to allow it. I've never heard anything about Alice in Wonderland. Glass Onion and I had that as the Beatles film following McCartney's death in "End of the Beginning" (side note: we should continue that someday).
The closest thing was a TV movie Ringo was in in 1985. That and "I Am The Walrus", and some assorted Lewis Carroll inspired imagery elsewhere over the course of the Beatles' career.
That must've been where I heard it, well, read it
One of my curiosities is what Epstein will look like as time goes by. He will go bald, as mentioned. I wonder if he'll take that well or if he'll wear a wig. Eppy was also a stylish lad, so I wonder how he'll do in the scruffy latter days of the 60s. He did grow sideburns by 1967, after all. Perhaps we'd see Eppy with a beard or mustache, and perhaps he'd grow his hair out a bit.
Most styles would change with the age, and if he did grow anything out, he'd trim it back or cut it off as we got out of the 60s and as the 70s went on. If he did adopt a mustache or beard, that may remain, though changing to fit the era.
Most styles would change with the age, and if he did grow anything out, he'd trim it back or cut it off as we got out of the 60s and as the 70s went on. If he did adopt a mustache or beard, that may remain, though changing to fit the era.
Lord of the Rings, yes, but it never went anyone beyond some brain storming. JRR Tolkein still held the film rights and refused to allow it. I've never heard anything about Alice in Wonderland. Glass Onion and I had that as the Beatles film following McCartney's death in "End of the Beginning" (side note: we should continue that someday).
The closest thing was a TV movie Ringo was in in 1985. That and "I Am The Walrus", and some assorted Lewis Carroll inspired imagery elsewhere over the course of the Beatles' career.
Also, the Lord of the Rings idea seems, from what I know, to post-date Epstein's death, possibly by as much as two years.
It was 1969 if sources are to be believed, which its a bit difficult to since there are deviations in a good story like "did you hear the Beatles almost did Lord of the Rings?".
On a related note:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKAkeRBrFng
I hate Lord of the Rings and love The Beatles, the idea of it's existence as a film is too confusing for me to even fully consider. 
I hate Lord of the Rings and love The Beatles, the idea of it's existence as a film is too confusing for me to even fully consider.
You know how amazing a Lord of the Ring's Beatles' soundtrack would have been? I wouldn't go with 1969 (or later), though. Either the psychedelic era in late 1966 to 1968, or the White Album 1968. The imaginativeness or "folk" of the series would be better served by those. I have trouble seeing the Beatles' "Let it Be" era sound evoking this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RRVIVJjuaHE
Too much Tolkien-ness aaahhhh
McCartney's Rupert the Bear songs possibly give an idea of how it may have sounded...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aH0BKKsk2Uk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IWB5uWesluU
I really don't think the Lord of the Rings in its entirety could have been filmed in 1968-1969, and certainly not in a Beatle film time frame. Stanley Kubrick said it couldn't be done, and I think he was right.
However, at the same time Lennon was trying to convince his fellow Beatles to make a live action film, the art director from Yellow Submarine was trying to create a kind of operatic, animated take. His basic idea was that since the Lord of the Rings was too vast to adapt every scene, he would use imagery and music to convey the story, in the hopes that such an approach could conserve the essence of the story while allowing it to be abridged.
I still think the best option for a Beatles Lord of the Rings film is some sort of merger of these two ideas. An animated pseudo-operatic Lord of the Rings epic that makes use of Beatles songs, and has them provide their voice acting talents occasionally, mostly because the driving force of the band's interest in the project was Lennon's desire to play Gollum. The music, as was the case with Yellow Submarine, could predate whatever material the band records in the year its released.
True, this would mean animation, but the Beatles did like Yellow Submarine. More importantly, it would allow them to act in such a film on a Beatle film timescale and not a Stanley Kubrick film timescale.
It might be a disaster, but it'd be interesting to see.
Of course the chances of the film I'm imagining happening are negligible.
However, at the same time Lennon was trying to convince his fellow Beatles to make a live action film, the art director from Yellow Submarine was trying to create a kind of operatic, animated take. His basic idea was that since the Lord of the Rings was too vast to adapt every scene, he would use imagery and music to convey the story, in the hopes that such an approach could conserve the essence of the story while allowing it to be abridged.
I still think the best option for a Beatles Lord of the Rings film is some sort of merger of these two ideas. An animated pseudo-operatic Lord of the Rings epic that makes use of Beatles songs, and has them provide their voice acting talents occasionally, mostly because the driving force of the band's interest in the project was Lennon's desire to play Gollum. The music, as was the case with Yellow Submarine, could predate whatever material the band records in the year its released.
True, this would mean animation, but the Beatles did like Yellow Submarine. More importantly, it would allow them to act in such a film on a Beatle film timescale and not a Stanley Kubrick film timescale.
It might be a disaster, but it'd be interesting to see.
Of course the chances of the film I'm imagining happening are negligible.
Well, it'd be different from that. That film was far more of a straight adaptation than Heinz Edelman wanted to do, and the idea of doing such a version was essentially his idea. The idea was to use music to condense the story, so it'd actually be more akin to something like Fantasia than that. Also, in terms of imagery, Edelman wanted to use designs inspired by Akira Kurusawa's films, so the imagery would not resemble what you would expect out of a Lord of the Rings project.
So an artsy acid trip film which is essentially a collage music video and collection of musical segments in feature form?
It'd be closer to that than the Lord of the Rings animated film that was actually made. The caveat I would put on that is that Edelman still wanted to tell the Lord of the Rings story, so there'd be more of a comprehensible plot than a typical acid trip/Fantasia like film or even Magical Mystery Tour And I'm not sure whether everything was going to be musical or whether music was simply going to be used to condense the story. Also, if the Beatles are involved, there will be bits of dialogue, both to satisfy UA if possible, and also because Lennon really wanted to play Gollum.
Does anyone know enough to talk about the legal stuff about Seltaeb which was still evidently an issue when Epstein died? All I know is that it was a clusterfuck which resulted in a legal battle.
Wasn't a criticism of that film idea that it would give Lennon too much of the spotlight in Gollum?
Wasn't a criticism of that film idea that it would give Lennon too much of the spotlight in Gollum?