WI Brazilian settler colony in modern Namibia?

Lusitania

Donor
Hey you could have a part of the leaders of cisplana revolt and their followers flee South America pursued by Brazil navy ships. They try to flee to Portuguese Angola but due to weather and pursuing Brazilian ship seek shelter in Walvis Bay. They disembark and able to hold off the ships. Taking their supplies and guns ashore. Bad weather forces the Brazilian ships to move away and when they return a week later the revolters have moved inland.

A decision is made to establish a fort there by Brazil to guard against the revolters return. You take it from there.
 
Browsing through a few threads of South America colonies [that is colonies owned by South America] the general agreement was that Brazil was the most likely nation out of them all to establish colonies. What if they did? What if Brazil had established presence in Southwest Africa prior to the Berlin Conference and was allowed to keep this colony? If Brazil was able to establish such a settler colony, what are the chances they would be able to hold onto it?

You refer to Colonies in Africa? or Colonies in General? because if the second case, Technically Chile founded a Colony in Rapa nui, Eastern Island in the 1888. But was mostly a case of no one else want the land.
 
You refer to Colonies in Africa? or Colonies in General? because if the second case, Technically Chile founded a Colony in Rapa nui, Eastern Island in the 1888. But was mostly a case of no one else want the land.

Yeah, I mean Africa. Getting South American nations Pacific colonies is a little too easy.
 
Case point in Canada there is several people criticizing Canada first prime minister for actions and what he said about natives. While in today’s context they are wrong, they were consistent with attitudes of others in similar circumstances and positions of power at that time. But that does not stop people today from condemning him and just like in US there was a statue of him removed from one part of Canada.

I suppose I understand what you're saying, I'm just old fashioned. I don't think it's fair to critic John Macdonald, exactly because he lived in a different time. A great example here is the American south; the southern states' economy was so deeply rooted in slavery that abolishing it suddenly would cripple it. By modern standards, this doesn't matter; slavery is objectively wrong. But in the 1860's, a lot of great powers still either practiced slavery or had dependencies that did, so the idea of keeping it wasn't as outrageous as it is now.

The way I see it, [and I have to admit this is really just my opinion, a good case can be made in the other direction] judging historic figures by modern standards is like judging an old car by modern standards. Compared to modern cars, cars from 1910 are horrible and objectively bad. But judging it by the standards of the time tell a completely different story.
 
Hey you could have a part of the leaders of cisplana revolt and their followers flee South America pursued by Brazil navy ships. They try to flee to Portuguese Angola but due to weather and pursuing Brazilian ship seek shelter in Walvis Bay. They disembark and able to hold off the ships. Taking their supplies and guns ashore. Bad weather forces the Brazilian ships to move away and when they return a week later the revolters have moved inland.

A decision is made to establish a fort there by Brazil to guard against the revolters return. You take it from there.

That's a very interesting idea actually. Much better than my original idea of a prestige colony. It also account for the size I had in mind.
 

Lusitania

Donor
That's a very interesting idea actually. Much better than my original idea of a prestige colony. It also account for the size I had in mind.
In time you then establish orange river as natural boundary with British South Africa to south and Portuguese Angola to north. Missionaries follow of course and establish missions amongst the natives just like iOTL.
 
In time you then establish orange river as natural boundary with British South Africa to south and Portuguese Angola to north. Missionaries follow of course and establish missions amongst the natives just like iOTL.

Though I imagine that Angola would likely go further south and that this Namibia wouldn't go as far inland.
 
You’d need the colony to be established after 1850, which is when the Atlantic slave trade was permanently absolished in Brazil. Any sooner the Brazilians would immediately lose their colony to the British, especially in the time period between the Brazilian Act of 1845 and 1850.

Related idea - what if, following the 1807 invasion, the Portuguese royal family remained in Brazil, or (some of) Portuguese influence in Africa transferred to the South American empire?
Angola was much closer to Rio de Janeiro than to Lisbon since at least the 17th century, when a Rio expedition expelled the Dutch from Angola and established a bilateral slave trade ran from Rio, rather than Lisbon. The African colonies would have definitely joined an independent Brazil if Britain hadn’t stepped in and defended Portuguese ownership over those colonies.
 
You’d need the colony to be established after 1850, which is when the Atlantic slave trade was permanently absolished in Brazil. Any sooner the Brazilians would immediately lose their colony to the British, especially in the time period between the Brazilian Act of 1845 and 1850.

That or establish it in an area generally lacking in natives.
 

Lusitania

Donor
You’d need the colony to be established after 1850, which is when the Atlantic slave trade was permanently absolished in Brazil. Any sooner the Brazilians would immediately lose their colony to the British, especially in the time period between the Brazilian Act of 1845 and 1850.

That was why it would be important that Brazilian Africa be limited to fort and religious missions for the first few decades, which based on Brasil situation would be a fair reflection of their power projection. In 1860 you could have one or several people decided to start a African company to settle and manage Brazilian Africa. They become responsible for recruiting settlers to Africa.
 

Lusitania

Donor
Most likely yes. Perhaps not permanently, but yes, we would see British gunboat diplomacy on both sides of the Atlantic.
So could the involvement of Brazil in Africa lead to Brazil abolishing Slave trade in the 1850-1860s when faced with British gun boat diplomacy and threat of attack due to slavery. Could we see a compromise appear in Brazil where all existing adult slaves stay slaves but all children are free. Plus ban the slave trade both importing and within the country as a way of appeasing the British.
 
So could the involvement of Brazil in Africa lead to Brazil abolishing Slave trade in the 1850-1860s when faced with British gun boat diplomacy and threat of attack due to slavery. Could we see a compromise appear in Brazil where all existing adult slaves stay slaves but all children are free. Plus ban the slave trade both importing and within the country as a way of appeasing the British.
The Brazilian elites would rather slit their own wrists than do that. Namibia ain’t worth it (and not even Angola). :p

Plus Britain never cared about slavery itself, only the slave trade. That said Brazil did abolish the slave trade for real in 1850. It could happen sooner if the colony predates it.
 
@ByzantineCaesar @Lusitania Now I’m thinking about how all this affects the southern third of Africa* - to start, if Britain is either policing or annexing the lands around Luanda, while also holding the Cape Colony, do they eventually settle the coastal area between them (OTL Namibia) with English speaking settlers?

*basically OTL Angola, Zambia, Malawi, and Mozambique, plus everything south of them
 
So could the involvement of Brazil in Africa lead to Brazil abolishing Slave trade in the 1850-1860s when faced with British gun boat diplomacy and threat of attack due to slavery. Could we see a compromise appear in Brazil where all existing adult slaves stay slaves but all children are free. Plus ban the slave trade both importing and within the country as a way of appeasing the British.
Brazil did enact a freedom of the womb law not too long after the Paraguayan War, and also a bunch of laws easing the worst horrors of slavery. I think it was well recognized that the institution was not long for the world. It's going to take a bit of POD to move the movement to pre American Civil War.

They could simply do what the British (and a lot of others) did - change the name to a period of indentured service (nominally voluntarily entered, but in reality involuntary because of the conditions imposed upon the natives which forced them into it). It's not 'slavery', but it is a way to use and abuse the same labor pool.
 

Lusitania

Donor
Brazil did enact a freedom of the womb law not too long after the Paraguayan War, and also a bunch of laws easing the worst horrors of slavery. I think it was well recognized that the institution was not long for the world. It's going to take a bit of POD to move the movement to pre American Civil War.

They could simply do what the British (and a lot of others) did - change the name to a period of indentured service (nominally voluntarily entered, but in reality involuntary because of the conditions imposed upon the natives which forced them into it). It's not 'slavery', but it is a way to use and abuse the same labor pool.

Yes the British Caribbean substituted the African slaves with indentured Indians to work in the plantations.

I used the POD that Britain gunboat diplomacy forces the Brazilians to enact several laws to appease the British. The enforcement of these laws would in many ways result in slavery ending around same time as iotl.
 
@ByzantineCaesar @Lusitania Now I’m thinking about how all this affects the southern third of Africa* - to start, if Britain is either policing or annexing the lands around Luanda, while also holding the Cape Colony, do they eventually settle the coastal area between them (OTL Namibia) with English speaking settlers?

*basically OTL Angola, Zambia, Malawi, and Mozambique, plus everything south of them
Those countries add up to a pretty gigantic area to police. While I can see Britain claiming some of it and letting local African Kingdoms rule the rest, once the Scramble for Africa begins among the European Powers, Britain would accede part of the area to a minor European Power, perhaps the Dutch? That way Britain won't have to police the whole area themselves while not feeling threatened by a major power in the area, which was the exact purpose Portugal served.
 
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