WI: Brazilian-Dutch War over Dutch Guiana

What happens if Brazil declares war on the Netherlands in the late 1800s with the intent of annexing Dutch Guiana?
 
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During the Napoleonic Wars might be the best bet.

Not to be picky, but Brazil was still part of Portugal...

D. João VI invaded the french Guyana when he set up his court here. Wikipedia says (not a really good source, i know) that the british got Suriname/dutch Guyana in 1799 after the french vassalized them.
Have the british not being able to invade Suriname for whatever reason and then Portugal invading it in addition to french Guyana?

Perhaps we could have a more generous post-war treaty to Portugal and it gets both french and dutch Guyana. In a future independence war, Brazil gets them.
Or... Have a POD somewhere in the napoleonic wars wehre Portugal gets french Guyana in the peace treaty, and the british get Suriname. Later on the british could sell it to Brazil, perhaps alongside british Guyana.

A pity that the indians weren't in the Guyana yet. It'd be interesting to see how a indian minority would fare in Brazil :D
 

Tamandaré

Banned
During the Napoleonic Wars might be the best bet.

How was the Dutch Navy doing? If its a straight-out England and Portugal vs France and (vassalized) Netherlands, then I think the Dutch are going to lose their colonial empire, or at least most of it, to the Portuguese and the English, even if the Spanish try to help.
 
I edited my post. Late 1800s.
In that case Brasil get rightfully accused of aggressive imperialism. Relations with France, Britain and many European countries become a lot worse, but probably noone will support the Dutch. Brazil easily defeats the Dutch forces and annexes Surinam.



*Actualy I could maybe see France supporting the Dutch. They will realise that they might be the next Brazilian target and they could use a Netherlands that looks favourably on France as a possible ally (or at least friend) against Germany. Also for the same reason Germany might help the Dutch, but they can do a lot less than France. Still both are a big if and I don't think it will happen.
 
I edited my post. Late 1800s.

Then Brazil would have no reason to attack at all. We didn't have border disputes with Netherlands over Guiana, only with Britain and France. It would only make some sense if French Guiana belonged to Brazil, and even then it's quite unlikely.
 
Portugal was forced to cough up French Guyana after the Napoleonic wars. They managed to get a good chunk back in arbitration a couple decades later.

In the mid 1890's, Britain attempted to grab a big chunk of Venezuala, and the US said no dice. Granted, the roles would be reversed - a local country abusing a European country - but I doubt the US is going to be too happy. Britain, although up to it's eyeballs in world conflicts, is going to put it's foot down, too. There's only room for one bully in town, and that bully is going to be either Britain or the US.

Time frame:
1800 - 1850: Britain won't allow it. Brazil not stable enough.
1850 - 1865: Brazil not really stable, and is concentrating on bullying it's southern neighbors
1865 - 1870: Brazil gets a wake up call on the cost of being a bully.
1870 - 1880's: still paying the price of being a bully.
After that: the memory of the cost of being a bully is fading. maybe the military/landed elite decides it needs a splendid little war to take the people's mind off of their throwing out the beloved Emperor and the mess they've made of the economy. The Dutch are an easy target. With luck, Britain's too busy with their woes elsewhere. Maybe Britain and Brazil make a deal: they both oppose the US and each can abuse Venezuala and Guiana. At worst, Brazil has an incident with the US while tossing out the Dutch, and both the US and Brazil get a bigger splendid little war than they were counting on. US wins, but at what cost, and what gain? Does Britain stand by their bully buddy, or do they toss Brazil under the bus and use the situation to their advantage in Venezuala? Sorry, Brazil, you're on your own
 
How was the Dutch Navy doing? If its a straight-out England and Portugal vs France and (vassalized) Netherlands, then I think the Dutch are going to lose their colonial empire, or at least most of it, to the Portuguese and the English, even if the Spanish try to help.

'Vassalised Netherlands' or the Batavian Republic had already lost its Empire, the British were 'taking care' of them for the real Dutch.
 
why do we all assume the netherlands are a walk in the park for Brazil?
its not even modern Brazil but the corrupt and underpopulated Brazil of the 1800s.

I'm also pretty sure that the dutch were neutral so invading them WILL spark a response and see Brazil lose.
 
why do we all assume the netherlands are a walk in the park for Brazil?

Because we are talking about 1800s Netherlands, which was poor and a mere shadow of the power it once was. Both the Dutch army and navy were relatively weak (see for example WWII, or the Aceh war). Besides that Brazil is a lot closer. I don't think the Dutch would be able to defeat Brazil.
 
Because we are talking about 1800s Netherlands, which was poor and a mere shadow of the power it once was. Both the Dutch army and navy were relatively weak (see for example WWII, or the Aceh war). Besides that Brazil is a lot closer. I don't think the Dutch would be able to defeat Brazil.
No, they wouldn't but i seriously doubt the Brazilians (who were equally weak albeit closer) could just walk into Suriname and the people would automatically accept Brazilian rule.

The Dutch also had friends and were (relatively) neutral. So an unprovoked invasion of one of their territories would lead to a response by other powers, especially Britain/France/US who didn't want to see a hegemony in s. america.

those are also both bad examples of why the dutch were weak, one was basically a guerilla war and the other was WWII.
 
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No, they wouldn't but i seriously doubt the Brazilians (who were equally weak albeit closer) could just walk into Suriname and the people would automatically accept Brazilian rule.

They only have to defeat the Dutch forces in Surinam. I think Brazil would be able to do that before the Dutch can react. I realy doubt the Dutch are able to make a succesful counterattack lacking Surinam. Wether the people accept it is not important. it quickly becomes a fait accompli.
The Dutch also had friends and were (relatively) neutral. So an unprovoked invasion of one of their territories would lead to a response by other powers, especially Britain/France/US who didn't want to see a hegemony in s. america.

The Dutch may have had a couple of friends, but they didn't have any allies that would or could help them. But you are right. The rest of the world would not like it and probably turn against Brazil. This alone would probably enough reason for Brazil not to do it (and I realy doubt Brazil would do it).
 
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