Wi Brazil join the falklands war

According to documents made public in 2012*, during the falklands war the brazilian president-dictator General Figueiredo had planned to join the falklands war on the argentinian side if the UK had made any incursion inside the argentinian territory, first a transcription of the article I found:

"Brasília - Secret archives shows that the brazilian government alerted the USA that Brazil wasn't going to accept if british troops attacked the continental region of Argentina during the falklands war. The documento, of which the state had access, narrates two meetings in may of 1982 between the president of Brazil, João Baptista Figueiredo, and of the USA, Ronald Reagan, and also the american secretary of state, Alexander Haig

The document is from the collection of the Concil of National Security, stored inside the national archive in Brasília, and got the rare classification of top secret

In the first meeting, in may 11, in Blair House - the offical guest house of the american president -, Figueired was only with Haig, preparing himself to meet Reagan in a presidential meeting two days later

Figueired, as Haig, regret that the conflict in the falklands had became a military dispute and both try to operate as moderators. But Figueired warns that the consequences could be way worse if the british tried to fight in the continental soil, instead of restricting themselves into the falklands archipelago

The brazilian general seems to suggest that such situation wouldn't be accepted in south america, and Brazil could even position itself military in the argentinian side..."

you can find the rest of the article here, but it is in Portuguese

Well, here is the question: What if the british had raided the argentinian coast, or the argentinian military junta got in touch with Figueiredo's words and made a false flag attack inside argentinian territory to bring Brazil into the argentinian side, what would happen? Sadly I have no data of the size of the brazilian army and navy at the time, but Brazil had only one aircraft carrier, the colossus class Minas Geraes bought in 1956
 
I don't think the former HMS Vengeance would be of that much concern, she only carried helicopters and trackers at the time.
 
Last edited:
The diplomatic repercussion would be massive, trust between South American nations and the West/Nato might be heavily damaged for many years. Even the Cold War itself may not end as OTL if South American countries start aligning with the Soviets to spite the British and Americans.
 
I seriously doubt that the Brazilian military could meaningfully 'project power' at the time other than perhaps shift some squadrons of Mirage IIIs (they operated a total of 27 air frames including replacements) to Argentina and use the Trackers to find the British fleet in the time frame

The actual land fighting on the West Island went on from the 21st May (landing in San Carlos bay) till the surrender of the Argentine forces on the Island on the 14th June - and realistically there was no further reinforcements of troops from the mainland during May and June.

So at what point does the Brazilian President Figueiredo decide to 'join' the Argentinians?

Also as the British had no intention of invading Argentina (beyond a hair brained scheme to send a C130 full of SAS to commando raid an Argentine Airbase that was never seriously considered) the whole idea of a Brazilian intervention does not take place anyway!
 
a hair brained scheme to send a C130 full of SAS to commando raid an Argentine Airbase that was never seriously considered
Well, hair brained for certain, but considered seriously enough that one ex-SAS member states that he was in the C-130 on the runway with the engines running when the mission was scrubbed due to Intel discovering a new radar on the proposed flightpath.
 
Well, hair brained for certain, but considered seriously enough that one ex-SAS member states that he was in the C-130 on the runway with the engines running when the mission was scrubbed due to Intel discovering a new radar on the proposed flightpath.

I just hope that if it had happened then Ridley Scott directed the film ;)
 
The meetings happened in may, so Brazil could join argentina from may to june

But militarily what could they do?

They could not send troops - they could only supply a handful of Fighter-Bombers and unless they were 'in on it' when the Argentine Junta were planning the operation then getting units ready is going to take time.

Any support would likely be political only in the time frame
 
But militarily what could they do?

Sadly, I don't know the size of the brazilian navy at the time, neither of the army and I cannot find this info online

At the best they could make a strike force led by the Carrier Minas Geraes and tried to break the british blockade of the falklands, but that's it
 

Archibald

Banned
One of the Black Buck Vulcan armed with AGM-45 Shrike ARM made a forced landing in Brazil after its refueling boom snapped off on the way back to Asencion island. Think it was early June. The Vulcan crew tried to dish the missile before landing but failed. The fact that the Vulcan was armed made things harder for diplomats, although both Vulcan and crew were soon released.

Could that be a casus belli for Brazil ?
 

Pangur

Donor
Very hard TBH. However if the Brazilians had internet the aircraft and free and the British push to hard to have them released that might, just might set things on that direction
 
The bigger danger is long term as pointed out a few posts ago.

It is impossible for Brazil to side with the soviets, Brazil was at the time under a military dictatorship that was entirely built on anti communism, even if Brazil fought the british and lost, this still wouldn't be enought to push it into the soviet side
 
Well, hair brained for certain, but considered seriously enough that one ex-SAS member states that he was in the C-130 on the runway with the engines running when the mission was scrubbed due to Intel discovering a new radar on the proposed flightpath.

It has been my experience that what an ex-SAS member (some of whom may even be genuine ex-SAS members) says, and what the reality was, do not often coincide. If I had a pound for every time an "ex-SAS member" is reported in the press or writes in a book something that I know for a certain fact to be less than accurate, I could afford my mid-life crisis.
 
Sadly, I don't know the size of the brazilian navy at the time, neither of the army and I cannot find this info online

At the best they could make a strike force led by the Carrier Minas Geraes and tried to break the british blockade of the falklands, but that's it

The carrier air group is comprised of Anti Submarine Helicopters and S2 Trackers which are Anti Submarine Aircraft and I am not aware of their ability to be armed with bombs (apparently some variants carried rockets under the wing) but due to its size and low speed it would have been suicide trying to attack British Ships with this Aircraft.

The S2 has a Maximum speed of 280 MPH and Cruise Speed of 150 MPH with a range of 1300 miles and has the AN/APS-38 radar (in a Retractable 'dustbin') but I am not sure of its effective range but it might have proven useful as a Search aircraft operating from the mainland (after the sinking of the Gen Belgrano on May 2nd - like the Argentine Carrier I cannot see Minas Geraes putting to sea)

So the Carrier does not have the ability to directly attack the British Fleet - I think the Braziliam navy had some 'Modern' Vosper Thorneycroft Frigates (Confirmed 6 x Type 10) Not sure if they were Exocet armed at the time but they were very similar to the Royal Navy's Type 21s
 

Deleted member 94680

The RN sinks an Aircraft Carrier as well as a Battleship? HMS Conquerer returns with two ships on her Jolly Roger rather than one?
 
It has been my experience that what an ex-SAS member (some of whom may even be genuine ex-SAS members) says, and what the reality was, do not often coincide. If I had a pound for every time an "ex-SAS member" is reported in the press or writes in a book something that I know for a certain fact to be less than accurate, I could afford my mid-life crisis.
That's a problem that has to be dealt with in pretty much any historical event, even in official documents.

However, this one seemed relatively genuine to me, and you have the opportunity to judge for yourself.
IIRC, it was in one of these that the comment was made, and apparently they're now available on YouTube
http://www.channel5.com/show/secrets-of-the-sas-in-their-own-words

Incidentally, it would be interesting to find out how you know such intimate details of classified operations
"for a certain fact".
 

Saphroneth

Banned
The RN sinks an Aircraft Carrier as well as a Battleship? HMS Conquerer returns with two ships on her Jolly Roger rather than one?
Doesn't seem much like something that would provoke a Brazilian DoW. I mean, it's just the RN sinking enemy ships.

(Unless you mean a Brazilian CV, not sure if they had one.)
 
Doesn't seem much like something that would provoke a Brazilian DoW. I mean, it's just the RN sinking enemy ships.

(Unless you mean a Brazilian CV, not sure if they had one.)

What if Brazil and Argentina combine their efforts? They make a strike force led by the brazilian carrier Minas Geraes and the Argentinian Carrier Veinticinco de Mayo, Brazil joining the war on the argentinian side would give a boost for the weakening argentinian morale, as the USA entry in WWI did to the entente, the british now have a navy twice as big to fight
 

Saphroneth

Banned
What if Brazil and Argentina combine their efforts? They make a strike force led by the brazilian carrier Minas Geraes and the Argentinian Carrier Veinticinco de Mayo, Brazil joining the war on the argentinian side would give a boost for the weakening argentinian morale, as the USA entry in WWI did to the entente, the british now have a navy twice as big to fight
I'm more wondering why the Brazilians are joining in, I thought the suggestion was that Brazil joined in because of the carrier sinking.
 
Top