WI: Brandywine is an American Victory

Redhand

Banned
The Brandywine battlefield was a repeat of Long Island from the previous year with a British flanking force driving Washington from the field. Washington's army was actually well placed, well supplied, and had high morale for a change and certainly could have won the battle. Say he anticipates the flanking maneuver and sends Greene at the under strength Hessians while Howe slowly marches to the ford while keeping Sullivan's force compact and ready for the "surprise". Is it possible that Howe's force is forced to retreat or even could've been destroyed piecemeal?
 
no destruction of Howe's army, Howe withdraws with casualties and the Americans have a victory in their pocket
 

Redhand

Banned
no destruction of Howe's army, Howe withdraws with casualties and the Americans have a victory in their pocket

That is most likely, but Howe couldn't be supported from the Chesapeake forever without taking a major port or deciding to hightail it back to NYC. The separation of the army and a grand Hessian rout was actually possible if Greene crosses as Howe is in the process of crossing 3 miles upstream. Maybe not a destruction, but I'm thinking that if Howe is stuck on the North side of the river and his main camp and position along with most of his supplies are lost, things could actually get dicey.
 

Redhand

Banned
While I am tempted to say we're getting too off-topic here, I can't pretend that I wouldn't hijack a thread to talk Game of Thrones.
 
While I am tempted to say we're getting too off-topic here, I can't pretend that I wouldn't hijack a thread to talk Game of Thrones.

Shame there's not a Brandywine in GOT unless its in King Robert's hands. :D

Washington wasn't exactly the most astute tactician of the war. His insufficient reconnaissance and lack of anticipation of the flanking maneuver in concert with Howe's refusal to battle the American army except on his terms meant that Washington was lucky to have gotten off as lightly as he did. It was Howe's battle to lose more than Washington's to win.
 
I don't know much about this battle, so I can't comment. But in Washington's defense, remember, he wasn't a professional soldier, like Lee and Grant were. He had been a militia member in the F&I War, but he was a planter by trade. For all that Americans admire him, he hadn't had the training that later American heroes got at West Point. Considering what he had to work with, its a wonder that he did as well as he did. The aforementioned ACW generals had to lead sometimes poorly trained men also, but at least they were professionals themselves.
 

Redhand

Banned
Shame there's not a Brandywine in GOT unless its in King Robert's hands. :D

Washington wasn't exactly the most astute tactician of the war. His insufficient reconnaissance and lack of anticipation of the flanking maneuver in concert with Howe's refusal to battle the American army except on his terms meant that Washington was lucky to have gotten off as lightly as he did. It was Howe's battle to lose more than Washington's to win.

The tactical plan behind Brandywine was fine, it was the reconnaissance that was poor. His army arrived at the ford with faulty maps that ignored another ford a few miles west that Howe was able to exploit. Reports did cycle in after the battle had started about this ford, but the source was a wildly mentally unstable farmer who nobody listened to. Unlike Long Island, where the numerical and qualitative difference made the American survival of the battle miraculous, Brandywine was quite winnable.

The plan acknowledged that Howe would try to flank the defense as a frontal assault over the ford would be horribly costly and not Howe's style, but failed to acknowledge a ford much closer to the American position than originally thought. If Sullivan entrenched his men ready for an assault on his flank and Greene launnched an assault on the Hessians WHILE Howe crossed over, I don't see how Howe could continue such a risky maneuver.
 
The tactical plan behind Brandywine was fine, it was the reconnaissance that was poor. His army arrived at the ford with faulty maps that ignored another ford a few miles west that Howe was able to exploit. Reports did cycle in after the battle had started about this ford, but the source was a wildly mentally unstable farmer who nobody listened to. Unlike Long Island, where the numerical and qualitative difference made the American survival of the battle miraculous, Brandywine was quite winnable.

The plan acknowledged that Howe would try to flank the defense as a frontal assault over the ford would be horribly costly and not Howe's style, but failed to acknowledge a ford much closer to the American position than originally thought. If Sullivan entrenched his men ready for an assault on his flank and Greene launnched an assault on the Hessians WHILE Howe crossed over, I don't see how Howe could continue such a risky maneuver.

But he didn't and Howe proceeded to destroy Washington's army after Lafayette was killed in his brave but futile rearguard action. Àfter the so-called revolutionary leaders were caught and hung after trying to flee Philadelphia, the rebellion soon petered out.
The rest is history -- he says sipping his tea in the Confederated Dominion of America and Canada. Thank goodness we are still blessed by being in the Commonwealth.
God save her majesty, the Queen.
:p
 
But more seriously, in your scenario, it seems 1 of 2 things would happen: a slugfest results that becomes a N. American version of Borodino or, more likely, Howe disengages, looking for a more advantageous encounter or simply reboards his troops and sails away.
Philadelphia is saved.
 

Redhand

Banned
But more seriously, in your scenario, it seems 1 of 2 things would happen: a slugfest results that becomes a N. American version of Borodino or, more likely, Howe disengages, looking for a more advantageous encounter or simply reboards his troops and sails away.
Philadelphia is saved.

I think that long before anything degenerated into Borodino both commanders would call it off. That kind of fighting was not 18th century warfare in the least bit and the closest you get to such slaughter would be Oriskany, which was because the militia and the Indians simply kept going at it for whatever reason.

Yes, Howe could disengage, but my point is that if in doing so he loses a sizable portion of Knyphausens troops, he himself would be vulnerable to attack. Desertion during the Philadelphia campaign for the British was an enormous issue that weakened the army considerably. This came from attritional issues that led to entire companies of British regiments having been scooped up from urban prisons in England.
 
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