WI: Black Panther Party Forms During Reconstruction?

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Historically, the black panther party was formed as a reaction to the MLK assassination in 1968. Huey Newton, a black socialist revolutionary activist, hoped the panther party could both help restore a sense of black nationalist pride after the 1968 riots while also creating a self-defense militia for black communities fearing police brutality violence and KKK violence.

Sooo.. my question is this:

What if black citizens (recently freed slaves from the south & freemen from the north) during the reconstruction era formed a panther party, advocating violent self-defense ideals as reaction to 19th century KKK violence.

What do you think would happen?

Could this early Panther Party flourish?

How would US presidents, and the north in general react?

Could Black Nationalism culturally mesh in Antebellum USA
 
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Historically, the black panther party was formed as a reaction to the MLK assassination in 1968. Huey Newton, a black socialist revolutionary activist, hoped the panther party could both help restore a sense of black nationalist pride after the 1968 riots while also creating a self-defense militia for black communities fearing police brutality violence and KKK violence.

Sooo.. my question is this:

What if black citizens (recently freed slaves from the south & freemen from the north) during the reconstruction era formed a panther party, advocating violent self-defense ideals as reaction to 19th century KKK violence.

Would do you think would happen?

Could this early Panther Party flourish?

How would US presidents, and the north in general react?

Could Black Nationalism culturally mesh in Antebellum USA

Most blacks aren't even literate at that point. Secondly, the Black panther ideology is pervaded with elements from Marxism, Maoism, and Nkrumahism, as well as other 20th century movements. No offense, but you seem to have a penchant for posting wildly/divisive implausible stuff.
 
Most blacks aren't even literate at that point. Secondly, the Black panther ideology is pervaded with elements from Marxism, Maoism, and Nkrumahism, as well as other 20th century movements. No offense, but you seem to have a penchant for posting wildly/divisive implausible stuff.

Though I appreciate your answer, note how I excluded the socialist thought and focused more on the violent self defensive ideals of the movement.

Furthermore you would be foolish to believe that northern blacks during reconstruction were illerate at all. Ever heard of Frederick Douglas? D.E.B Dubois? Probably not seeing as your answer has zero historical perspective
 
Your idea still requires schools of thought that either do not exist or the fact that both these figures never used themselves. There is the fact that such a militant movement would play into the hands of those like Andrew Johnson and give more reason to suppress what may be seen as a movement to divide the Union.

Just posting a 'what if' and not actually doing any of the groundwork yourself kinda makes me doubt that you yourself are taking your own idea seriously, but in the interest of actually perusing your idea I'll just make some notes.

There is no way that even moderate whites could be seen to tolerate a movement as militant as the BP in the 1860's. There is also the fact that I doubt that Fredrick Douglas would look kindly on such a movement as he himself was a spellbinding user of the spoken word as a means to get his message across. D.E.B Dubois was born in 1863 so I don't really see why your even listing him. He would have been against a BP party anyway as he was a champion for integration.

The Black Panthers were a product of many different influences, many of those have only just begun in this time period.

As the facts stand, I can't see how such a movement could be started, never mind sustained, in the time period you suggest.
 

TinyTartar

Banned
Though I appreciate your answer, note how I excluded the socialist thought and focused more on the violent self defensive ideals of the movement.

Furthermore you would be foolish to believe that northern blacks during reconstruction were illerate at all. Ever heard of Frederick Douglas? D.E.B Dubois? Probably not seeing as your answer has zero historical perspective

That is a very small subset of the Black population. Heck, a lot of the white population at this point was illiterate as well. Black participation in politics during Reconstruction consisted of voting for the Republicans and voting for educated Black men, most of whom had been free for a good portion of their lives, to represent their interests, which was done until the Democratic backlash occurred, in which case the Black population slowly lost rights in many states (South Carolina and Georgia) while in others, they just kept voting Republican and occasionally got lucky (Florida and Louisiana).

As for a black militant party, I doubt it, as the only backing they'd get would be from the most Radical of the Radical Republicans, and the kind of organization and funding needed for this party to gain power could not be done with only black membership and a platform that would be likely hated by most of the rest of the country.

It is possible, I suppose, for a black power faction to emerge during the heyday of the Radical Republicans, but it would not last.
 

RousseauX

Donor
Though I appreciate your answer, note how I excluded the socialist thought and focused more on the violent self defensive ideals of the movement.

They get smacked down by white supremacist groups like the KKK in a big hurry.

Black Pantheres etc depended on certain levels of state protection to function, because as a minority group the amount of violence you can enact will pretty much by definition never match the amount of violence which can be enacted on you by the majority. In the 1960s, at least outside the deep south, the police will probably arrest you for shooting some rank and file member of the party whereas if this was the 1860s the local police will probably encourage you to do it.

Furthermore you would be foolish to believe that northern blacks during reconstruction were illerate at all. Ever heard of Frederick Douglas? D.E.B Dubois? Probably not seeing as your answer has zero historical perspective
So what's the literacy rate for African Americans in the 1860s?

Wanna bet it's <50%?
 
They get smacked down by white supremacist groups like the KKK in a big hurry.

Black Pantheres etc depended on certain levels of state protection to function, because as a minority group the amount of violence you can enact will pretty much by definition never match the amount of violence which can be enacted on you by the majority. In the 1960s, at least outside the deep south, the police will probably arrest you for shooting some rank and file member of the party whereas if this was the 1860s the local police will probably encourage you to do it.

So what's the literacy rate for African Americans in the 1860s?

Wanna bet it's <50%?


1. Are you arguing Unionist troops stationed in the reconstruction era south wouldn't support/protect black defensive militias battling KKK terrorism?

2. Since when does literacy have do with organized armed struggle? Again were not talking secessionist revolution, but most likely this Reconstruction Panther Party would be protecting voter polling stations in the south. Black owned sharecropping farms and trade routes from KKK violence. etc.

Why is this so hard to consider as an even a remote possibility?
 
1. Are you arguing Unionist troops stationed in the reconstruction era south wouldn't support/protect black defensive militias battling KKK terrorism?

The sad fact is that often enough, they didn't. But even assuming they would be willing to help, they can't be everywhere. Occupation forces were neither very numerous, for the size of the territory they covered, nor terribly happy with their job. Less so as time progressed and Washington sold them out. There were black organisations dedicated to defending themselves, and they lost to the better armed, better connected, more aggressive and more evil side.


2. Since when does literacy have do with organized armed struggle? Again were not talking secessionist revolution, but most likely this Reconstruction Panther Party would be protecting voter polling stations in the south. Black owned sharecropping farms and trade routes from KKK violence. etc.

I think the key disagreement here is what you mean by 'like the Black Panthers'. An armed group dedicated to protecting black communities from white racism? Sure, they could do that in 1865. In fact, those groups existed. Veterans of Union colored regiments often joined to help and protect each other. The Republican party also had its own clubs.

But the Black Panthers are much more than just an armed self-defense militia. They have a specific ideology, and that ideology is simply not thinkable in an earlier timeframe. In that sense, it's ASB. So, how like the Black Panther Party do you mean?

Why is this so hard to consider as an even a remote possibility?
Largely, I suspect, because it was tried IOTL. Black people defended themselves and their communities, and they were killed. It's hard to imagine they would not have done that with everything they had, so the conclusion suggests itself that what they had was not enough to stand up to the organised terror of the planter elite. Putting together an association of armed men is not going to change very much. More support, better weapons, better organisation and funding might, but realistically, they were living in an age that considered the superiority of the white race a serious political argument. There was little reason to expect more outside help.
 
Largely, I suspect, because it was tried IOTL. Black people defended themselves and their communities, and they were killed. It's hard to imagine they would not have done that with everything they had, so the conclusion suggests itself that what they had was not enough to stand up to the organised terror of the planter elite. Putting together an association of armed men is not going to change very much. More support, better weapons, better organisation and funding might, but realistically, they were living in an age that considered the superiority of the white race a serious political argument. There was little reason to expect more outside help.


Thanks carlton_bach. It's nice to know that I'm not the only realist on this subject.

The answer to the original question is of course that such a party would have taken votes away from the Republicans and allowed the Democrats (ie white supremacists) to regain power that much faster - after which the Panthers would soon have been neutered or worse.
 
Thanks carlton_bach. It's nice to know that I'm not the only realist on this subject.

The answer to the original question is of course that such a party would have taken votes away from the Republicans and allowed the Democrats (ie white supremacists) to regain power that much faster - after which the Panthers would soon have been neutered or worse.

Upon more research I happen to agree. Thx for fair, impartial answers gentlemen.
 

RousseauX

Donor
1. Are you arguing Unionist troops stationed in the reconstruction era south wouldn't support/protect black defensive militias battling KKK terrorism?

2. Since when does literacy have do with organized armed struggle? Again were not talking secessionist revolution, but most likely this Reconstruction Panther Party would be protecting voter polling stations in the south. Black owned sharecropping farms and trade routes from KKK violence. etc.

Why is this so hard to consider as an even a remote possibility?

Yeah as other people have said this has being tried already, it's just that black militias lost out to white paramilitary groups in the race war of the 1860s-70s.

See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colfax_massacre
 
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