WI Bismarck was firm in his anticolonial preferences?

Why would Britain ally with Germany. What would Britain offer the Germans

Salisbury offered Germany in 1895 to enter the "Dreibund" of Germany, A-H and Italy, suggesting to divide up the Ottoman Empire, giving Anatolia to Germany. 1898/99 they repeated the offer and added Morocco's atlantic coast. 1901 they approached Germany again, and at this time Japan almost was a British ally, which would have made the offer even better. - Bismarck's incompetent successors always declined!
 
Last edited:

raharris1973

Gone Fishin'
Donor
Monthly Donor
Salisbury offered Germany in 1895 to enter the "Dreibund" of Germany, A-H and Italy, suggesting to divide up the Ottoman Empire, giving Anatolia to Germany. 1898/99 they repeated the offer and added Morocco's atlantic coast. 1901 they approached Germany again, and at this time Japan almost was a british ally, which would have made the offer even better. - Bismarck's incompetent successors always declined!

Wow - sources on this? Have the full details of the proposed Ottoman partition? Anatolia to Germany, Fertile Crescent/Arabia to Britain, Balkans to Austria and Italy?

The version I had heard was that the British never offered the Germans a commitment to help them in Europe, and sought only a limited Anglo-German agreement to contain Russia in China. Taking that concept at face value, its attractions for Germany would have been less than the attractions of the deal you described.
 
Salisbury offered Germany in 1895 to enter the "Dreibund" of Germany, A-H and Italy, suggesting to divide up the Ottoman Empire, giving Anatolia to Germany. 1898/99 they repeated the offer and added Morocco's atlantic coast. 1901 they approached Germany again, and at this time Japan almost was a British ally, which would have made the offer even better. - Bismarck's incompetent successors always declined!
Doubt that one. In 1895 and 1896 Salisbury was kicking around various schemes to deal with the Armenian massacres

The Germans saw no reason to partition the Ottomans and were generally appalled at the ideas especially over Albania

Salisbury never offered to join the Triple Alliance and had no desire for a German Alliance

In 1902, Salisbury destroyed Chamberlain's alliance idea. A German Alliance was worthless as neither side was able to fulfill it, the Germans were terrified of the Russians and would always throw Britain overboard, Britain needed no alliance against France and a German alliance would make a colonial settlement with France impossible

Salisbury always sought to use the Triple alliance as leverage in negotiating with France and Russia
 
That late in the race with all the prices worth something already taken its better to abstain altogether. Stay back, take a humanitarian stance and adopt an ideology that strongly comdemns colonialism and the atrocities commited. Make press champaigns showcasing the latter while ridiculing the civilising mission and white mans burden nonsense of the others. Its a bit of good press and could help you make buddies with the USA as well.
 
Doubt that one. In 1895 and 1896 Salisbury was kicking around various schemes to deal with the Armenian massacres

The Germans saw no reason to partition the Ottomans and were generally appalled at the ideas especially over Albania

Salisbury never offered to join the Triple Alliance and had no desire for a German Alliance

In 1902, Salisbury destroyed Chamberlain's alliance idea. A German Alliance was worthless as neither side was able to fulfill it, the Germans were terrified of the Russians and would always throw Britain overboard, Britain needed no alliance against France and a German alliance would make a colonial settlement with France impossible

Salisbury always sought to use the Triple alliance as leverage in negotiating with France and Russia

You are right however to be fair: In a german-british alliance if it came to war between Russia-France and Germany-Brittain because of british colonial interests it would still be Germany that would have to do the heavy lifting and take the big risk while if successfull it would be most likely Brittain who took the fruits of victory - as most of the colonies would be under british occupation. I think its understandable why Germany was not keen on a british alliance. Its only with hindsight that we can say that they should have taken the bad deal to avoid the worse that is OTL.
 
You are right however to be fair: In a german-british alliance if it came to war between Russia-France and Germany-Brittain because of british colonial interests it would still be Germany that would have to do the heavy lifting and take the big risk while if successfull it would be most likely Brittain who took the fruits of victory - as most of the colonies would be under british occupation. I think its understandable why Germany was not keen on a british alliance. Its only with hindsight that we can say that they should have taken the bad deal to avoid the worse that is OTL.
The German diplomatic dispatches speak of a war where Britain plays its usual role. That is, sits on their island, build up a big army and impose a settlement where the British get everything

The Kaiser's staff also see Salisbury's game: use the threat of Germany to get terms from France and Russia
 
Doubt that one. In 1895 and 1896 Salisbury was kicking around various schemes to deal with the Armenian massacres

The Germans saw no reason to partition the Ottomans and were generally appalled at the ideas especially over Albania

Salisbury never offered to join the Triple Alliance and had no desire for a German Alliance

In 1902, Salisbury destroyed Chamberlain's alliance idea. A German Alliance was worthless as neither side was able to fulfill it, the Germans were terrified of the Russians and would always throw Britain overboard, Britain needed no alliance against France and a German alliance would make a colonial settlement with France impossible

Salisbury always sought to use the Triple alliance as leverage in negotiating with France and Russia

'k, and what are your sources?
 
Top