WI Bismarck sank both adversaries and withdrew?

Suppose Lutjens and Lindemann had decided to finish the Prince of Wales after sinking Hood, yet additional damage incurred induces them to withdraw to Norway or Wilhelmshaven. What would Bismarck do afterwards, after repairs? Is it likely it wouldn't do anything for the rest of the war since there was barely enough fuel for three sorties for the Tirpitz in the OTL?
 
This is quite an interesting scenario. It doesn't really affect the outcome or the duration of the war IMHO, but it nevertheless produces some hefty butterflies.
 
Possible, however its likely that Bismark &/or Prinz Eugen would have taken damage, potentially serious (or even been sunk) doing so. Don't forget that it wasn't just HMS Prince of Wales, HMS Norfolk and HMS Suffolk (with 8x8" guns each) were also involved in the action. There were also six British destroyers somewhere in the vicinity (Vice Admiral Hollands screen) unless they had been sent back to Scapa.

Of course any damage that Bismark & PE takes, increased their chances of being intercepted by King George V, which *was* fully worked up and operational.

Don't forget also that the King George V had a much more modern (improved) armour scheme over the Bismark.
 
So Bismarck and PE sinks Norfolk and Suffolk which are trying to screen PoW, then intercepts PoW and sinks her.

They may or may not escape, but if they do, they return to Germany for repairs.

following the invasion of the SU, both Bismarck and Tirpitz are ready to intercept arctic convoys. With their reputation the required escort is untennable and lend lease is prevented.
Optimal case from German perspective.
 
IF The Germans press the battle and Prince of Wales suffers the historic break downs it would be a very one sided battle. PoW lost most of her main guns and I assume as damage piles up would loose the rest. So it’s possible for Bismarck to not only win but also win with little to no damage taken in turn.

What happens after is open question.

Michael
 
IF The Germans press the battle and Prince of Wales suffers the historic break downs it would be a very one sided battle. PoW lost most of her main guns and I assume as damage piles up would loose the rest. So it’s possible for Bismarck to not only win but also win with little to no damage taken in turn.

What happens after is open question.

Michael

A few OTL hits on the Prince being luckier would be quite enough. Prince had all four guns in the rear turret disabled for a while, and if any shells hit that turret in the interim would probably not help the repairs.

The OTL hits that I think could doom the Prince though, if a bit luckier:

Compass platform hit kills everyone in the area. OTL, Captain Leach survived. Obviously, another officer will take command, but I expect that to take valuable minutes

Dud that hit to the 5.25" ammunition handling room OTL explodes. Note that I do not expect this to seriously hurt the PoW, but it does damage her secondaries.

Prinz Eugen hit right above the rudder compartment and flooded it OTL. In our scenario, have it strike a little lower, and flood the rudder machinery.

Prinz Eugen landed a hit right above a propeller skeg, below the waterline OTL. I'm sure you can see where I'm taking that...

You don't even need all of these, and PoW could be doomed. Jam the rudder. OTL, Prinz Eugen was preparing a torpedo salvo when PoW broke off. If she can't break off, she might eat a few torpedoes.
 
The German navy has some additional prestige in Hitlers eyes.

With Bismarck and PE possible in Norwegian waters, less need to bring back S+G from Brest.

Agree no Lend Lease convoys (independents would sail though). Butterflies away 2nd Barents and the scrap the fleet order.

The effects would be little:
Independent sails could make up much of the Lend Lease tonnage.
The Germans might try sending Lutzow on a raid in winter of 1942.
The Allies have to contend with more active warships in 1942.
A big German warship might be around when the war ends.

The only military effects would be if the Allies can't do a Malta convoy in 1942, or Torch is delayed, or Guadalcanal is delayed due to the extra naval strain.
 
No need for historical hits to change. When PoW disengaged she was very close 11k yards I believe. So she is deep within Bismarck gunnery range. Have Germans turn and follow preventing PoW from opening the range. Constant shelling will see to the rest.
 
No need for historical hits to change. When PoW disengaged she was very close 11k yards I believe. So she is deep within Bismarck gunnery range. Have Germans turn and follow preventing PoW from opening the range. Constant shelling will see to the rest.

True, but in this case, I would like PoW to not change course so that Prinz can launch torpedoes. Even one could make a big difference in PoW's ability to get away
 
The British may also, depending on how grave they view the threat, put together a series of raids to permanently damage the battleship in harbor. I dont know the plane ranges to say if they could use land based planes for these attacks or if they'd have to use a carrier, but either way I don't see them leaving such an existential threat to their convoys unmolested.
 
People are talking about how Bismarck is going to Sink PoW with gunnery in an extended engagement. How?

Regard how long it took for gunnery to sink Bismarck OTL, if it even did. POW is better protected with better damage control than Bismarck. No doubt Bismarck and Prinz Eugen could have perhaps shelled POW into to a burning ruin above the water line, but the ship would have remained afloat, and the lucky hit that did for Hood certainly isn't going to be replicated.

With the rest of the RN closing in, Bismarck simply doesn't have the time to batter PoW into submission. They can wreck her, but not sink her.

Bismarck and Prinz Eugen will have to disengage, leaving PoW an effective mission kill, that the RN will probably recover and tow back to port.
 
If Bismark and Prinz Eugen withdraw, the British can't catch them short of home. Once Bismarck is repaired and Tirpitz is worked up, you have a scary situation for the Allies. One heavy unit is not enough escort for an Arctic convoy. If the Twins do run the channel, that's a formidable battle group. Sure, the Royal Navy has them outnumbered, but some ships will always be unavailable, whereas the Germans chose the time of any action. Britain will probably have at LEAST 8 capital ships tied down. (Battlecruisers need not apply...) At the time, HMS Royal Oak, Hood, and Prince of Wales have been lost. The Italian fleet's been reduced in power by Taranto, but there's still a need for some capital ships in the Med.

If there's a mass breakout--perhaps covering Lutzow slipping into the convoy lanes in the chaos--it can get messier indeed.
 
Suppose Lutjens and Lindemann had decided to finish the Prince of Wales after sinking Hood, yet additional damage incurred induces them to withdraw to Norway or Wilhelmshaven. What would Bismarck do afterwards, after repairs? Is it likely it wouldn't do anything for the rest of the war since there was barely enough fuel for three sorties for the Tirpitz in the OTL?
What about this: What If: the Bismarck Had Escaped Destruction in 1941

On May 19, 1941, the German battleship Bismarck, accompanied by the cruiser Prinz Eugen and several escort vessels, made its way through the Kattegat Strait separating Nazi-occupied Denmark from neutral Sweden. The 50,000-ton warship’s objective was to reach British convoy routes in the North Atlantic and do as much damage as possible. From the outset the Bismarck had no hope of reaching those routes in secrecy. Swedish aircraft identified the vessels in the German formation, news that made its way quickly and clandestinely to the British military attaché in Stockholm.

The Bismarck reached port at Bergen, Norway, the next day. On May 21 a British reconnaissance aircraft snapped a photo of the battleship at anchor. Bismarck and Prinz Eugen put out to sea on May 22; the following day two British cruisers spotted the enemy ships in the Denmark Strait between Greenland and Iceland. The British battleship Prince of Wales and battle cruiser Hood arrived on the scene early on May 24. In the ensuing fight, the Hood blew up spectacularly, with the loss of all but three seamen. The Prince of Wales suffered significant damage. The Bismarck was also damaged and now had a 9-degree list to port and a 3-degree trim to bow, the result of damage to fuel bunkers and efforts to transfer fuel to intact bunkers.

The German admiral in charge of the operation, Günther Lütjens, decided to defer the planned strike at the convoy lanes and instead make for France to effect repairs. He detached the Prinz Eugen; the Bismarck, now operating alone, briefly eluded the British before a Catalina PBY pilot spied the enormous warship. Dozens of British vessels were also hunting the Bismarck, for if the super-battleship ever did break out into the Atlantic, the result could be catastrophic. The Bismarck was nearing shelter at Brest, France, when a fluke of luck caused a torpedo from a carrier-based Swordfish biplane to jam the battleship’s rudder. The Bismarck steamed helplessly in a circle until a British flotilla closed in and, on the morning of May 27, sank the Bismarck, killing all but 114 of the ship’s 2,200-man crew.

So ended the Bismarck’s first and only combat voyage—a saga that immediately gained worldwide fame. But what if the German battleship had successfully broken out into the Atlantic? For this to have happened, any of three alterations to the historical events would need to have occurred.

First, the Bismarck would have had to elude detection—an unlikely possibility. Second, the warship would have had to escape damage in the Battle of the Denmark Strait—a possibility, since historically the Bismarck had damage minor enough that Admiral Lütjens could have continued the mission. Third, and most likely, the Bismarck would have had to reach safety at Brest, where it would have joined two smaller battleships, the Scharnhorst and Gneisenau, that had just completed a successful though limited raid against British shipping. Within weeks of Bismarck arriving, all three battleships would have been able to put out to sea in another strike against the Atlantic convoy lanes.

What would have been the result? Historically, the chief of the German navy, Admiral Erich Raeder, chose to use his limited number of capital ships as surface raiders. His intention was to force the Royal Navy to dilute its strength by diverting warships to convoy escort duty and, in combination with Admiral Karl Dönitz’s U-boats, to sever Britain’s maritime lifelines. Prior to the Bismarck’s sortie this strategy enjoyed some success. Between November 1940 and March 1941 the pocket battleship Admiral Scheer sank 17 merchant vessels totaling over 113,000 tons of shipping. During the same period the cruiser Admiral Hipper accounted for another 53,000 tons. In February 1941 the Scharnhorst and Gneisenau—under the joint command of Lütjens—had reached the Atlantic undetected. The battleships encountered four convoys, but British battleships were escorting two of the groups, and Lütjens’s orders prohibited him from engaging enemy capital ships if at all possible. He therefore withdrew, inflicting little or no damage. Lütjens’s luck was similarly bad with the other two convoys, in large measure because of the proximity of other British battleships. As a result, Lütjens did scant damage, destroying only about 27,000 tons of British shipping.

Lütjens’s caution, however, was driven by the fact that Scharnhorst and Gneisenau (like Admiral Scheer and Admiral Hipper) were lightly armored and less powerful than their British rivals. In contrast, the heavily armored Bismarck could outgun and outrun virtually any of Britain’s capital ships.

Had Bismarck encountered a convoy, the battleship could have successfully engaged the escort vessels and picked off most of the freighters before they could escape, and in the open Atlantic the Bismarck would have been very difficult to locate. Further, the Kriegsmarine had stationed more than a dozen German support vessels ready to resupply and refuel the Bismarck, which would have allowed the battleship to remain at sea as long as three months. United under these conditions with Scharnhorst and Gneisenau, the Bismarck could have done a formidable amount of damage indeed.

Ironically, the original concept for the Bismarck’s historical operation, Rhine Exercise, contemplated just such a raid by Bismarck and the two smaller battleships. Bismarck set out alone in mid-May because the Scharnhorst and Gneisenau were not ready to go to sea. Events proved this course of action unwise, but had the Bismarck sprinted successfully to Brest—which certainly would have occurred but for the fortuitous damage to the Bismarck’s rudder—Rhine Exercise could have proceeded in its original form.
 
Only other RN units close enough to intervene are the two rn cruisers following. Give it an hour to batter PoW into a wreck. Then Prinz Eugen closes and torpedos PoW.

PoW will sink from some combination of progressive flooding, fires or RN scuttling her.

People are talking about how Bismarck is going to Sink PoW with gunnery in an extended engagement. How?

Regard how long it took for gunnery to sink Bismarck OTL, if it even did. POW is better protected with better damage control than Bismarck. No doubt Bismarck and Prinz Eugen could have perhaps shelled POW into to a burning ruin above the water line, but the ship would have remained afloat, and the lucky hit that did for Hood certainly isn't going to be replicated.

With the rest of the RN closing in, Bismarck simply doesn't have the time to batter PoW into submission. They can wreck her, but not sink her.

Bismarck and Prinz Eugen will have to disengage, leaving PoW an effective mission kill, that the RN will probably recover and tow back to port.
 
If the wreck does't sink, it'll be a constructive total loss. Unlike the USN, the Royal Navy doesn't have the resources to do a West Virginia style repair. The only advantage the RN gets if the wreck doesn't sink is saving more crew (HUGE) and, if they tow the hulk back to port, being able to deny that the ship was sunk.
 
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