WI: Better Fates for the Last Tsar's Daughters

She was, and she wanted to be regent in case the child she was carrying (who turned out to be Anastasia) was a boy.

Yeah, it was a tricky situation, since if I read Witte's description of events correctly, the succession laws made no provision for an unborn heir, which meant Mikhail Alexandrovich would've become emperor immediately, however, if Alexandra then gave birth to a boy after Mikhail had succeeded, it was earnestly hoped that he would step aside in favor of his newborn nephew, while Alix and he would serve as regent.

Out of curiosity, this is probably a self-explanatory question, but Nikolai originally abdicated in favor of Alexei, but then when Nicky was told to pack his bags as he wouldn't be allowed to stay near/with his ill-son, he protested that "he cannot live without him" and abdicated for both of them. Why wouldn't they let Nicky and Alix have supervised visits to their son? And was that even legal (Nicky abdicating in Alexei's name (I know Alexei wasn't of age to rule yet, but not even Napoleon abdicated in the name of his son; ICR about the Comte de Chambord, if he signed the document himself or his uncle or grandfather did for him)?
 
Yeah, it was a tricky situation, since if I read Witte's description of events correctly, the succession laws made no provision for an unborn heir, which meant Mikhail Alexandrovich would've become emperor immediately, however, if Alexandra then gave birth to a boy after Mikhail had succeeded, it was earnestly hoped that he would step aside in favor of his newborn nephew, while Alix and he would serve as regent.

Out of curiosity, this is probably a self-explanatory question, but Nikolai originally abdicated in favor of Alexei, but then when Nicky was told to pack his bags as he wouldn't be allowed to stay near/with his ill-son, he protested that "he cannot live without him" and abdicated for both of them. Why wouldn't they let Nicky and Alix have supervised visits to their son? And was that even legal (Nicky abdicating in Alexei's name (I know Alexei wasn't of age to rule yet, but not even Napoleon abdicated in the name of his son; ICR about the Comte de Chambord, if he signed the document himself or his uncle or grandfather did for him)?

Nicky was probably thinking of the consequences to Alexei's health should he abdicate in Alexei's name, since by abdicating, Nicky and Alix would be forced into exile, and there were fears that they would outlive Alexei due to his hemophilia, hence their anxiety at the prospect of being separated from him. Supervised visits aren't all that possible, as N&A could advise Alexei and still end up being the powers behind Alexei's throne.

As for the second one, yeah, that was a bit tricky, since by signing the first draft that named Alexei as heir, it made Nicky Alexei's subject and gave Nicky with no authority over Alexei even though the latter was his son. So yeah, abdicating on behalf of Alexei even though he was underage was technically illegal, as whoever Alexei's named regent was should have been the one to sign an abdication in Alexei's name, and it was certainly not Nicholas.
 
Nicky was probably thinking of the consequences to Alexei's health should he abdicate in Alexei's name, since by abdicating, Nicky and Alix would be forced into exile, and there were fears that they would outlive Alexei due to his hemophilia, hence their anxiety at the prospect of being separated from him. Supervised visits aren't all that possible, as N&A could advise Alexei and still end up being the powers behind Alexei's throne.

As for the second one, yeah, that was a bit tricky, since by signing the first draft that named Alexei as heir, it made Nicky Alexei's subject and gave Nicky with no authority over Alexei even though the latter was his son. So yeah, abdicating on behalf of Alexei even though he was underage was technically illegal, as whoever Alexei's named regent was should have been the one to sign an abdication in Alexei's name, and it was certainly not Nicholas.

Okay, cool. What if Alexei were to be made czar with Marie Feodorovna as guardian of his person with Mikhail as regent? I've read that Marie was representative of the Western, "liberal" "new" Russia, modernizing pull on Nicky, while Alix represented the Eastern, mystical, old Russian, traditional counterweight, and that these push-me-pull-me forces were disastrous for Russia (i.e. the Russian empire/monarchy) because of Nicky's character.
 
My understanding was that Nicholas' was desperate not to be divided from his son and it was made pretty clear that the assumption by those pressing his abdication was that Michael would be regent with the young Emperor's custody granted to the Dowager Empress.
Had Nicholas returned to St Petersburg to present that solution to Alexandra there would have been a dreadful reaction.
Both of them loathed Michael's wife and relations with Nicholas' mother were at an all time low - she'd left the capital a year earlier for Kiev because of her ignored concerns about the direction of the war and Alexandra's control.

Given the complex family relationships and the strong anti-Alexandra mood - it would have been politically very difficult for the regent and provisional government to have allowed Alexandra in particular formal access or custody of her son.

Hence his probably illegal second abdication and Michael's absolute shock when informed of the situation.

Marie Feodorovna was pretty unpolitical during her husband's reign though she did push an anti Prussian/German view and did attempt to alleviate the Russification of Finland (she remained the only Romanov to be popular in Finland even after the revolution).
Nicholas' sudden accession meant she did have a tendency to offer advice and early on Nicholas' did often consult her. However she did have a tendency to remain loyal to people even when they had behaved badly and often supported individuals who should have been removed from power.
Her views tended to change with regard a more liberal approach to Russia depending whether she was abroad or at home - though she was abroad more and more frequently as Nicholas' reign progressed.
She did however have bags of common sense and could tell that change was needed certainly during the war - but by then her influence with her son was a spent force.
 
My understanding was that Nicholas' was desperate not to be divided from his son and it was made pretty clear that the assumption by those pressing his abdication was that Michael would be regent with the young Emperor's custody granted to the Dowager Empress.
Had Nicholas returned to St Petersburg to present that solution to Alexandra there would have been a dreadful reaction.
Both of them loathed Michael's wife and relations with Nicholas' mother were at an all time low - she'd left the capital a year earlier for Kiev because of her ignored concerns about the direction of the war and Alexandra's control.

Given the complex family relationships and the strong anti-Alexandra mood - it would have been politically very difficult for the regent and provisional government to have allowed Alexandra in particular formal access or custody of her son.

Hence his probably illegal second abdication and Michael's absolute shock when informed of the situation.

Marie Feodorovna was pretty unpolitical during her husband's reign though she did push an anti Prussian/German view and did attempt to alleviate the Russification of Finland (she remained the only Romanov to be popular in Finland even after the revolution).
Nicholas' sudden accession meant she did have a tendency to offer advice and early on Nicholas' did often consult her. However she did have a tendency to remain loyal to people even when they had behaved badly and often supported individuals who should have been removed from power.
Her views tended to change with regard a more liberal approach to Russia depending whether she was abroad or at home - though she was abroad more and more frequently as Nicholas' reign progressed.
She did however have bags of common sense and could tell that change was needed certainly during the war - but by then her influence with her son was a spent force.

Well, once Nicky abdicates (the first time), and Mikhail is made regent for Alexei (say that butterflies mean that no one accepts the second abdication for what ever reason), can Nicky really do much if they were to appoint his mother as guardian of his son? And also, would Marie F. have only been loco parentis of Alexei, or of the daughters too? Considering that even though the elder among them would've been +18yo, they were still technically part of their father's family due to the fact that they hadn't married out yet.

Marie F.'s flaws aside (her support of people etc (must admit, seems very Stuart-esque of her)), is it her (through her) or Mikhail that would've really controlled government? I mean, Marie must've had not only bags of common sense, but a large enough bag of tricks that she would've picked up during her apprenticeship as wife of the Tsarevich, Empress, then Dowager Empress.
 
Which Marie are we talking about? The unpopular one? I doubt she had "bags of common sense" if she was that unpopular...
 
Which Marie are we talking about? The unpopular one? I doubt she had "bags of common sense" if she was that unpopular...

Was there more than one unpopular one? But yes, Marie Feodorovna, Dowager Empress - a.k.a. Angela Langsbury in the Disney movie Anastasia
 
Does anyone know how serious Alexei's attack of bleeding in December 1915 was? That that could've made Nikolai decide to change the succession laws? Or is that too late, or was Alexei's attack not serious enough?
 
Does anyone know how serious Alexei's attack of bleeding in December 1915 was? That that could've made Nikolai decide to change the succession laws? Or is that too late, or was Alexei's attack not serious enough?

Wasn't that in 1912, in Spala? That was the worst bleeding crisis Alexei had and he was even given the last sacrament and the announcements about his presumed inevitable death were already being written. It was also the reason why Mikhail rushed to the altar to get married to Natalya, since he'd never be able to marry her otherwise when he becomes Nicky's heir again.
 
Wasn't that in 1912, in Spala? That was the worst bleeding crisis Alexei had and he was even given the last sacrament and the announcements about his presumed inevitable death were already being written. It was also the reason why Mikhail rushed to the altar to get married to Natalya, since he'd never be able to marry her otherwise when he becomes Nicky's heir again.

IDK, that's part of why I'm asking, since in the doccie, "The Last Days of...Rasputin", they start the countdown to his death in December 1915, a year before Rasputin's death. They speak of Alexei being seriously ill that December, with a fear that he may have died. Rasputin, then like some sort of saving angel, swoops in in his black cassock, calms the boy and Alexei is saved.
 
IDK, that's part of why I'm asking, since in the doccie, "The Last Days of...Rasputin", they start the countdown to his death in December 1915, a year before Rasputin's death. They speak of Alexei being seriously ill that December, with a fear that he may have died. Rasputin, then like some sort of saving angel, swoops in in his black cassock, calms the boy and Alexei is saved.

Oh, that was a nosebleed while in Stavka, and if you place a POD there where Nicky changes the succession laws, it's probably too late since the whole reason they were in Stavka in the first place was because Russia already entered the war and they were organizing the troops. 1912 is a much more suitable POD, especially if Mikhail still marries morganatically during the crisis.
 
Oh, that was a nosebleed while in Stavka, and if you place a POD there where Nicky changes the succession laws, it's probably too late since the whole reason they were in Stavka in the first place was because Russia already entered the war and they were organizing the troops. 1912 is a much more suitable POD, especially if Mikhail still marries morganatically during the crisis.

Ok, thanks.

Obviously GD Kirill was the front runner for Olga to marry, and her parents would've probably preferred her to marry GD Dmitri (if only cause he was GD Sergei/Elizabeth's foster son), but are there any other grand dukes/princes who would come under consideration, since I could see Nikolai and Alexandra allowing her [Olga] a say in who she marries.

Although I did see a TL where she gets married to Vladimir 'Vova' Andreïevich, illegitimate son of Mathilde Ksessinszkaya (and surviving the Revolution by being exiled to Paris for a morganatic marriage)
 
Ok, thanks.

Obviously GD Kirill was the front runner for Olga to marry, and her parents would've probably preferred her to marry GD Dmitri (if only cause he was GD Sergei/Elizabeth's foster son), but are there any other grand dukes/princes who would come under consideration, since I could see Nikolai and Alexandra allowing her [Olga] a say in who she marries.

Although I did see a TL where she gets married to Vladimir 'Vova' Andreïevich, illegitimate son of Mathilde Ksessinszkaya (and surviving the Revolution by being exiled to Paris for a morganatic marriage)

I find it kinda odd that the Romanovs (or anyone geblüt-concerned) would regard a marriage to a cousin as morganatic. And considering it's Olga who's gonna become Empress Olga I of all the Russias, they should be glad that they can find a Romanov prince who can't decide that he's gonna claim the throne through his ancestry and not hers.

That said, wasn't Vova her half-brother? I think even the Habsburgs would stand in the corner alongside the Brothers Grimm and shout "no way!?"
 
I find it kinda odd that the Romanovs (or anyone geblüt-concerned) would regard a marriage to a cousin as morganatic. And considering it's Olga who's gonna become Empress Olga I of all the Russias, they should be glad that they can find a Romanov prince who can't decide that he's gonna claim the throne through his ancestry and not hers.

That said, wasn't Vova her half-brother? I think even the Habsburgs would stand in the corner alongside the Brothers Grimm and shout "no way!?"

It's morganatic because Vova, in addition to being illegitimate, had a commoner for a mother. Also, I doubt Vova is her half-brother. At the time he was conceived, Mathilde's dalliance with the Tsar had ended years ago.
 
It's morganatic because Vova, in addition to being illegitimate, had a commoner for a mother. Also, I doubt Vova is her half-brother. At the time he was conceived, Mathilde's dalliance with the Tsar had ended years ago.

Fair enough - should've checked the dates, but in a fanfic I read, Vova is Olga's halfbrother, and raised by a morganatically married George Alexandrovich and his wife in Paris.
 
It's morganatic because Vova, in addition to being illegitimate, had a commoner for a mother. Also, I doubt Vova is her half-brother. At the time he was conceived, Mathilde's dalliance with the Tsar had ended years ago.

Thanks for clearing up the Vova issue. Assuming Dmitri P. falls into disgrace as OTL due to his involvement in Rasputin's murder, and Kyrill is disliked by the Tsar due to him being Kyrill, and a marriage to her uncle Misha going from unlikely to impossible (unless the Tsar forces a divorce between Misha and Natasha and issues a dispensation to allow a girl to marry her uncle (does the Orthodox church even allow such marriages?)), would they look for a foreign second son for Olga and force him to allow the children to be born Romanovs (Nikolai I had forced this with his daughter, Maria "Masha", that her Beauharnais hubby allow not only the kids to be Orthodox, but also to allow the kids to bear the surname Romanovsky rather than de Beauharnais or something like that, plus he had to live in Russia plus etc you get the picture (no wonder Eugène de Beauharnais' widow threw a fit at the idea of the marriage))
 
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