WI: Bernie Sanders ran against Obama in 2012?

All right, here's a compromise:

Iowa: Obama, 49 pledged delegates and 11 super delegates; Sanders, 7 pledged delegates and 0 super delegates

New Hampshire: Obama, 26 pledged delegates and 7 super delegates; Sanders, 2 pledged delegates and 0 super delegates

I think the delegates Sanders got in IA and NH would be reversed.

IA-Obama, 54. Sanders, 2
NH-Obama, 21. Sanders, 7
 
Incorrect analysis. Of course, if you assume that neocom, neolibs are "progressive", you will end up with a GIGO issue.

I'm not talking about Hillary's views. I'm talking about Hillary's supporters. She did get progressive blacks on board, for sure.

And as for her views, I mean, she is a lifelong supporter of universal healthcare. And as for her foreign policy, both she and Sanders had the policy of continuing what Obama's doing.
 
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All right, here's a compromise:

Iowa: Obama, 49 pledged delegates and 11 super delegates; Sanders, 7 pledged delegates and 0 super delegates

New Hampshire: Obama, 26 pledged delegates and 7 super delegates; Sanders, 2 pledged delegates and 0 super delegates

I could see 1 or 2 here in Iowa. We almost got 1-2 uncommitteds OTL. But 7 is a stretch.
 
Bernie would go nowhere in 2012, and I say that as someone who voted for Bernie this year and had some issues with Obama in late 2011/early 2012. At best Bernie would hold on until Iowa or New Hampshire at the latest. For a primary challenger to get traction against Obama in 2012, you need Obama's Presidency to go much worse than it did, which isn't that difficult considering the shape the Country was in when he took over in January of 2009.
 
I'm not talking about Hillary's views. I'm talking about Hillary's supporters. She did get progressive blacks on board, for sure.

And as for her views, I mean, she is a lifelong supporter of universal healthcare. And as for her foreign policy, both she and Sanders had the policy of continuing what Obama's doing.
She supported Goldwater in '64 and only left the GOP in '68 because of Nixon's Southern Strategy. That to me isn't a lifelong supporter of Universal Healthcare.
 
She supported Goldwater in '64 and only left the GOP in '68 because of Nixon's Southern Strategy. That to me isn't a lifelong supporter of Universal Healthcare.

Are you seriously digging into her teenage years?

And no, she did not leave the GOP because of Nixon's Southern Strategy. She left because as she matured, she became more left-wing. She supported Clean Gene and McGovern, after all.
 
I'm not talking about Hillary's views. I'm talking about Hillary's supporters. She did get progressive blacks on board, for sure.

And as for her views, I mean, she is a lifelong supporter of universal healthcare. And as for her foreign policy, both she and Sanders had the policy of continuing what Obama's doing.
No, your suggestion that they divided progressives is garbage. That divide occurred 20+ years before. It's simply just come to a head now.
 
No, your suggestion that they divided progressives is garbage. That divide occurred 20+ years before. It's simply just come to a head now.

No, polls have shown time to time that blacks are left-wing. And blacks voted overwhelmingly for Hillary. Therefore, I conclude that the left-wing vote was split.
 
Explains why she supported McGovern.
I voted for Bush I in 92. I guess that means I'm a hard nosed Republican forever.

If you're going to argue that her support for Goldwater is meaningless, you can't also argue that a vote 8 years later means her position is set in stone.
 
Are you seriously digging into her teenage years?

And no, she did not leave the GOP because of Nixon's Southern Strategy. She left because as she matured, she became more left-wing. She supported Clean Gene and McGovern, after all.

I didn't have to do any digging, its a well known fact. It'd be one thing if Goldwater were a typical mainstream Republican of that time, but he was very far to the right of his time and played a key role in the mess we call the Modern Conservative Movement of today. I personally think her move away from the party had more to do with just maturity, and as for her support of Gene McCarthy, he moved pretty far to the right after that run, supporting Reagan in 1980, and it was after she started dating Bill, who for better or worse is a lifelong Democrat, that she backed McGovern in '72.
 
I voted for Bush I in 92. I guess that means I'm a hard nosed Republican forever.

If you're going to argue that her support for Goldwater is meaningless, you can't also argue that a vote 8 years later means her position is set in stone.

She supported Goldwater as a teenager. And then she supported McGovern as an adult.
 
I didn't have to do any digging, its a well known fact. It'd be one thing if Goldwater were a typical mainstream Republican of that time, but he was very far to the right of his time and played a key role in the mess we call the Modern Conservative Movement of today

She was a teenager, with ill-defined views. I think much of the reason she supported Goldwater was because her parents supported him.

I personally think her move away from the party had more to do with just maturity, and as for her support of Gene McCarthy, he moved pretty far to the right after that run, supporting Reagan in 1980, and it was after she started dating Bill, who for better or worse is a lifelong Democrat, that she backed McGovern in '72.

No. She was the First Lady of Arkansas, and an outspoken feminist. Why would she support a Republican, and a Republican who opposed the Equal Rights Amendment?
 
So? I supported Bush 1 as an adult. By your argument, I could only ever agree with the GOP forevermore...

My point stands.

Hillary's views have indeed changed since she supported McCarthy and McGovern. I guess you have a point there. Neither of them would have said something as ahead of their times and something as controversial as "women's rights are human rights and human rights are women's rights". Or I may be wrong and she was that far left in terms of women's issues from the beginning.
 
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