WI: Belgium lets German troops through

MrP

Banned
You'll have to fiddle with the Belgian government somehow, old man. Not sure how, either. Ruin Franco-Belgian relations, at the least.
 
Well Germany could promise parts of the French empire in Africa, tell them that they'll let their troops do anything in Belgium(Which they did in OTL)
 
This basically makes Belgium a German puppet. Can't really see them doing it, for the same reasons Servia rejected parts of the Austrian ultimatum.
 
Belgium was a Buffer staate for Britain vrs Prussia (later German Empire)

after the Revolution of 1830 a neutral Belgium under a provisional government and a national congress was form.
with help by Britain, otherwise:

Napoléon the III wandet french part.
Nederlands wandet Dutch-speaking part back.
Luxemburg wandet ther stolen part of the Duchy. (they lost more than half of territory in Revolution)

A constitutional monarchy was established in 1831, with a monarch invited in from the House of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha in Germany by the British.
Belgium became a full Nation with the installation of Leopold I as king in 1831,

It was not until April 19, 1839 however, that the Treaty of London signed by the European powers
(including the Netherlands) recognized Belgium as an independent and neutral country
so how to get Belgium-German Empire aliance ?

OTL Belgium monarch are from German orgin of the Duchy Saxe-Coburg-Gotha

Wat if Bismark offert the Belgium king, the Duchy Saxe-Coburg-Gotha ?
it was sold in 1834 to Prussia

OTL Napoléon the III had plans to annex Belgium and Luxemburg
after his offer to buy Luxemburg, there were rumors He wandet to buy the french part Belgium.

Wat If Belgium as Allies in German-french War of 1870 because of this ?
and Later in Great War of 1914 ?
 
Theis could prevent Britain from joint WWI in 1914 what are the effects?

Britain would declare war upon Germany and Belgium will be counted as one of the Central Powers. The objective of a neutral Belgium, as seen by Britain, was the neutrality of its Channel ports from a power that was hostile to Britain. The likelihood that the German High Seas Fleet may be moved from Wilhelmshaven to a port close by the English Channel - and closer to the English coast - does not appear to be favoured by Britain.

Belgium's act of permitting German troops to pass thru is a violation of its treaty of neutrality. At the end of the war the British take control of the Belgian Congo, now renamed British Central Africa (or something like that) and serious thought and planning goes into building an Atlantic to Indian Ocean railroad.
 
French Flanders could also be offered to the Belgians, but I'm not sure how much the Belgium would actually want more territory in Europe.

Actually, Kaiser Wilhelm did offer some French territories to Belgium in the case of war. He said that King Albert could be like one of the old Dukes of Burgundy. Albert refused.
 
What would be ideal of course if for the Belgians to let German trains pass through. Even on short notice the Germans could move a good sized body of troops to a jumping off point in the west of Belgium and keep up supploies far more effectively than OTL. But even without this the German attack on France would be considerably more efficient. Troops would be able to make 'administrative' marches, in transit rather than battle order and train lines would be available to bring up supplies without enemy action or sabotage. This would get them into northern France faster and fresher than OTL, and with the armies in closer contact with each other.

This would give the Germans that bit extra oomph they needed to hold on the Marne and probably win the Race to the Sea. It wouldn't make the Schlieffen plan succees (nothing short of massive investment in trucks and a rethink of the whole operation would), but it would place Germany in a better position for the grinding attrition ahead.
 

MrP

Banned
What would be ideal of course if for the Belgians to let German trains pass through. Even on short notice the Germans could move a good sized body of troops to a jumping off point in the west of Belgium and keep up supploies far more effectively than OTL. But even without this the German attack on France would be considerably more efficient. Troops would be able to make 'administrative' marches, in transit rather than battle order and train lines would be available to bring up supplies without enemy action or sabotage. This would get them into northern France faster and fresher than OTL, and with the armies in closer contact with each other.

This would give the Germans that bit extra oomph they needed to hold on the Marne and probably win the Race to the Sea. It wouldn't make the Schlieffen plan succees (nothing short of massive investment in trucks and a rethink of the whole operation would), but it would place Germany in a better position for the grinding attrition ahead.

I fear I must wave a red flag at your oncoming German military automobile.

If the Germans have acquired the cooperation of the Belgians, the French will know and adjust their plans so that the Belgian border is covered.
 
Is there then a chance the French will pre-emptively invade Belgium? (or do it as soon as the Germans enter Belgian territory.)
 

MrP

Banned
Is there then a chance the French will pre-emptively invade Belgium? (or do it as soon as the Germans enter Belgian territory.)

They wanted to IOTL. The British were very much against the idea, though, so they planned to head in further south.
 
They wanted to IOTL. The British were very much against the idea, though, so they planned to head in further south.

I'm not so sure that the British were as much against the idea before the war as they have made themselves appear to have been after. If push had come to shove on the issue, I think the British would have pressured the Belgians to let the French in.

However, in the mass mobilizations thru out Europe the Belgians did originally mobilize with the bulk of their armed forces along the French frontier. They had long suspicions about French advances and were pretty stunned when the ultimatum arrived from the Germans.
 
I'd think it would require fiddling with the Belgian government a bit much- I mean fiddling with it to such a extent that France gets involved and WW1 maybe starts early.
 
If prewar plans existed for Belgium to allow the German army to mobilise and assemble in Belgium then of course the French would react. But if in response to German demands during mobilisation the Belgians capitulated and allowed the Germans to transit it wouldn't be too hard for the Germans to run some of their later troop trains and supply trains into Belgium itself. Certainly much easier than for the French to completely change the direction of their mobilisation to counter it.

Imagine the benefits if the Von Kluck's army got to the Marne a couple of days earlier, having marched 50 miles less, having suffered less battle/marching casulaties and being less strung out?
 

sanusoi

Banned
Yep

Well for the Germans to get free access through Belgium, you will need two P.O.D’s. Firstly, you would need to have the relationship detriaite between France and Beligium. Secondly, the French decide to march through Belgium and get to the Germans first. On a bright day the Germans come in to save Belgium and the UK stays out of the war. Worst case scenriao Belgium decides to fight both sides. Attrition for all the people.
 

MrP

Banned
I'm not so sure that the British were as much against the idea before the war as they have made themselves appear to have been after. If push had come to shove on the issue, I think the British would have pressured the Belgians to let the French in.

However, in the mass mobilizations thru out Europe the Belgians did originally mobilize with the bulk of their armed forces along the French frontier. They had long suspicions about French advances and were pretty stunned when the ultimatum arrived from the Germans.

From what I've read, the British didn't really talk about it at all, because they didn't like to commit themselves. So we have a few comments from the government, and for everything else it's Henry Wilson.

Belgium massed on the French frontier? Really? :confused: I admit I could do with better research, but I've got the field army in the Tirlement-Pervaiz-Louvain triangle (apologies for any spelling errors, it's late), and garrisons at Antwerp, Liege and Namur. After that there's nothing left for the French border.
 

MrP

Banned
If prewar plans existed for Belgium to allow the German army to mobilise and assemble in Belgium then of course the French would react. But if in response to German demands during mobilisation the Belgians capitulated and allowed the Germans to transit it wouldn't be too hard for the Germans to run some of their later troop trains and supply trains into Belgium itself. Certainly much easier than for the French to completely change the direction of their mobilisation to counter it.

Imagine the benefits if the Von Kluck's army got to the Marne a couple of days earlier, having marched 50 miles less, having suffered less battle/marching casulaties and being less strung out?

Sadly, it would be very tricky. Wilson and half a dozen officers assembled the timetable to move 6 infantry and one cavalry divisions from the UK to France - and it took them a few years.* If the Germans have a long term contingency plan covering this possibility, then all is well. If they have to wing it on the day, expect a big mess if anything goes wrong.

As it was, the Germans had a force of troops who were tasked to seize Liege before the deployment of German troops to their jumping off points on the border was complete. They were to take the town before it could be reinforced. IOTL the Belgians were ready for them.

* Trickier, of course, to move men from multiple ports to land at multiple ports, to be entrained on varying sizes of irregular trains, than to keep men on trains an extra 50 miles.
 
The Germans moved several divisons from Tannenburg to Mansurian Lakes with very little long term planning. I'd envisage that the railway schedulers would have a couple of weeks to organise the movement of the last corps or so from 1st and/or 2nd armies to detrain inside Belgium rather than the assembly areas inside Germany.

Ludendorf wouldn't have any problems clearing the Liege defile, so the 1st and 2nd armies could march through there easily enough, and sooner too I'd imagine. And supply trains in later weeks would be able to unload deep inside Belgium wihout delays from sabotage.

As for a POD, the Belgians just being scared of Germany, and knowing that they will march through anyway may be reason enough to allow the transit.
 

MrP

Banned
As for a POD, the Belgians just being scared of Germany, and knowing that they will march through anyway may be reason enough to allow the transit.

Didn't work IOTL. The Belgians, despite being utterly outnumbered and hugely outclassed, still opposed the invasion. Maybe you could try a political crisis in Belgium to destabilise the place. Or a minor natural disaster . . . no, that'd be flooding. Ignore that idea.
 
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