What would be the immediate as well as lasting effects if Hitler's Munich Beer Hall Putsch had succeeded?
WI: Beer Hall Putsch Succeeds, Now What?
- Thread starter VirginiaHistoryTeacher
- Start date
Hitler. Thumb. Guess where it goes.
He probably gets overthrown during the Great Depression,
He probably gets overthrown during the Great Depression,
What do you mean with 'succeeded'? Get the upper hand in Munich? In Bavaria? At this stage I don't see any possibility that Hitler would get in power of germany. His organisation was still crude. The economical factors weren't in his favor. And also Hitler himself still had a lot to learn about politics.
Head of Bavaria for starters.
I guess if the Beer Hall Putsch is successful, what does this mean for World War II?
As Austria wasn't his first move (came to power in 33, Austria was 38), it wouldn't be his first in 23.
If he really comes to power with his "revolution", I can see two things happenning:
1) the leftist part of the NSDAP allies with the KPD and does much the same as in Russia,
2) or Hitler manages to get the Reichswehr on his side and installs a Mussolini-like regime in Germany. Next step: WAR (if he isn't stopped by the Frenchs before).
In any case, the at this point MUCH more bold French republic will seize the opportunity and, as civil war (long in my first option, short in the second scenario) rages in Germany, they will support the secession of the Rheinland and the Ruhr and, along with the Saar territory, form their satellit state there, as they did during the revolutionary wars.
Hitler's problem is now: without appeasement and the Ruhr industry, he has pratically NO CHANCE to succesfully annex Austria, Bohemia, remilitarize the now independent Rhineland etc. This will have repercussions in diplomacy: in a probable facist axe Rome-Berlin, Rome will, for many years, stay the senior partner. If the axe forms. Because in 1923, Italy had still strong ties to Britain and France.
This all leads to a final conclusion: if Hitler, coming by luck, with the support of the KPD or of the Reichswehr to power, he has only one diplomatic option, going against all what he thinks and wants. He has to ally with the USSR (this will be much easier in case 1) than in case 2)). The problem is, that if he does this, he can't follow the usal fascist policy, since there are still guys like Trotzki and Lenin around in Russia who will, in contrast to Stalin, not accept an unconditional alliance with a German state persecuting communists and putting them in camps.
Nevertheless, a strong link between a more or less socialist Germany and a communist Russia, both isolated in the world, could be very fecund for the two countries. With the remaining industrial areas (e.g. Silesia), Germany can support the industrializing of the Soviet Union which will become an economic superpower much quicker than OTL. On the other hand, military cooperation, that existed even OTL between Weimar and Russia, will be very tight, with Germany furnishing knowledge and high technology and Russia helping Germany in circumventing the Versailles treaty and providing the manpower.
As an ally of the Soviet Union, Germany will also be much less vulnerable and Germany can thus act more freely in Europe, e.g. by supporting rebells in the occupied Rhineland or seizing Austria. In a last move, Poland, as OTL, could be invaded by Germany and the USSR and after that, German and Soviet troops will have to fight together on the western front against France and Britain.
In short, European history will not be recognizable.
A wonderful idea for a TL.
He will have the same fate as the Räterepublik of Munich in april 1919. I don't think that the other parts of germany will accept the Putsch.
Good summation of things, this is what I was going for. So if the Putsch succeeds, I'm guessing he won't go to prison, he won't write Mein Kampf, Austria remains a nation-state, vis a vis the Rhineland and the Saar forming as potential independent microstates, possibly even satellite puppets of France. Poland will still be caught in the middle in any scenario. Stop screwing Poland!
To have the Putsch succeed, the Kampfbund would have to win the support of Von Kahr, which in my opinion is pretty much impossible.
He'd probably be quickly overthrown by various factions in favor of the republic. Probably the SPD rank and file has an uprising against the sudden right wing takeover. It was not a particularly competent takeover, And a rebellion was likely if it even temporarily and officially results in a chairman hitter.
The Kapp Putsch shows what happened to a pretty well planned and supported coup, where as the Beer Hall Putsch was essentially an embarrassing showing of how little support Hitler had, even in his stronghold of Bavaria.
Like the Tea Party in Vermont, but writ large, with more putsching and schoving.
Plus the Reichsbanner, Red-Front Fighter's League, and Steel Helmets paramilitary groups aren't going to support it either because they don't support right-wing s(the first two), or because they don't want some radical nobody in Bavaria taking power (the latter).
Which one of these groups is most likely to align with Hitler? Or are any of them likely AT ALL to align with Hitler? I think he would need outside support, but which can be turned to his favor?
None will align with Hitler. The Reichsbanner is the paramilitary wing of the Social Democrats and the Red-Front Fighter's League was the paramilitary wing of the Communists, so they are automatically hate Hitler. The Steel Helmets were a veteran's organization that was anti-Semitic, fascistic, and militaristic, so at first glance it seems like they would support Hitler. But in 1923 Hitler is a nobody. He was the leader of a relatively small political party that had never even stood in a federal election. Plus, in 1923 the left-wing of the Nazi Party (which emphasized Socialist ideals but with a dose of militarism and anti-Semitism) was much more powerful than it would be when Hitler actually came to power, and their agenda was anathema to the Steel Helmets.
However, WI the Beer Hall putch attempt is avoided? Later on in the 1929 and after, before Hitler came to power, there were numerous calls both from the party and from the other nationalist groups to take power. This is period when Nazi party had the strongest support, SA ranks have swelled through the army of unemployed and Nationalist block solidified around Hitler and Nazis.
Hitler however, after unsuccessful Beer Hall putch, accepted that he would come to power using legitimate means. So if avoided, Hitler could be persuaded to do it in 1929-30. That should prove interesting WI, I think.
Hitler however, after unsuccessful Beer Hall putch, accepted that he would come to power using legitimate means. So if avoided, Hitler could be persuaded to do it in 1929-30. That should prove interesting WI, I think.
Part of the reason for Hitler's success in this period however was the aftermath of the Beer Hall Putsch. Hitler decided to go national, he wrote Mein Kampf, and he became a very public figure. Without the Beer Hall Putsch it is possible that the Nazis don't get to the same level of support.