WI: Beatles Kept Pete Best

'What's Heligoland'???

Go to the link and find out.

Seriously, OTL Heligoland is a tiny North Sea island some way off Germany whose inhabitants were abandoned by Britain after the Kaiser wanted it. Now it's a tourist haven and the beloved 'Lunn' of heligolanders/Hallunders.

I'm rather fond of it - but not all my TLs involve it.:D

Ask around the others and you'll find it is the subject of my two completed TLs. Or go to my sig links.

And, yes, I have a sneaking liking for Sutcliffe and Best...
 
Not sure that Pete would've had the same cultural impact that Ringo had. It seems that Ringo was just as famous for being "Ringo," as much as the Beatles were for changing the musical landscape as soon as they played the Ed Sullivan Show in February of 1964. Every member had their own identity. I'm sure that while Pete Best might have been the musician in the combo, he certainly wouldn't have had the impact to take the Beatles to orbit if he had stayed in the group. Maybe I'm wrong.


Now if the Beatles hadn't broken up. Now there's something to possibly explore. My prediction there, just slap Beatles on top of "Wings." and there it is.
 
Emperor Norton I said:
In a timeline where Pete Best were kept on, you very well alter that dynamic.
You could very well see the band (still The Quarrymen?) break up before they become huge, & the Brit Invasion led by somebody else. The Animals? The Yardbirds? (I suppose the chances of Peter Green's Fleetwood Mac being bigger aren't good...:rolleyes: I keep seeing the yobs in their best brown baggies & platform soles, somehow.:p)
 
It is very, very difficult to have a drummer as lead singer and/or frontman. Although I can think of some lesser-known bands that can claim this, I can only come up with two widely popular bands that have that setup, the Eagles and post-Peter Gabriel Genesis. (And the latter was helped by the rise of MTV -- since MTV-style music videos didn't have to be live performances, Phil Collins wasn't stuck behind the drums and could be shown doing whatever -- an option which obviously wasn't prevalent in the early 1960s.)

I may be overlooking some drummer-fronted bands, but the point nonetheless remains that, all other things being equal, it makes a group a much tougher sell. Especially since I don't think anyone is claiming that Best was actually a better singer than Lennon or McCartney!

So I don't think there is any realistic chance of Best being either the main singer or the frontman of the Beatles. Then the question becomes, given that John/Paul will be leading the group, is Ringo a better fit for the drummer spot than Best? I feel very confident that the answer is "yes", simply because Ringo was the better drummer. I can't say that based on personal experience, as I have not heard Best drum. But I have never seen even those sympathetic to Best dispute the point. They always offer the "forced out because he was too good-looking" argument. If he were actually a better drummer too, those sympathetic to him presumably would say so.

I also think it's very mistaken to assume that because Best was the most traditionally good-looking Beatle, he was bound to have been the most popular. I believe that Ringo, the least traditionally good-looking, was the most popular Beatle in the early days -- and probably more so among women than men, even. The song "Ringo" by Lorne Greene hit #1 in large part because of Ringo's popularity (even though it wasn't actually about him). John/Paul only became more popular when the focus shifted from the "Beatlemania phenomenon" to the (increasingly sophisticated) music per se.
 
One change I forgot to mention: drumming technique will be changed.

Traditional proper drumming was one hand on the end of the stick and the other (I believe the dominant hand) on the middle of the drum stick. I've seen that's the way Pete Best drums as well. Ringo drummed with both hands on the end of the stick. That became the vogue.

Ringo also did things like make the drummer a prominent part of the group via the whole raised platform.
 
What if it were the other way around? They had Ringo and kicked him out because he was older and less attractive, and recruited Pete Best?
 
What if it were the other way around? They had Ringo and kicked him out because he was older and less attractive, and recruited Pete Best?

Wouldn't happen. Ringo was never in the cards as a first run drummer, since he was with Rory Storm. If they had him, they'd have no need for Pete Best, since Best was brought in because they needed a drummer. Ringo was brought in because of criticisms of Best's drumming (Ringo Starr was the best drummer in Liverpool at the time), and possible personality conflicts the likes of which would not arise were he with them given how well Ringo fit as we saw in the OTL.
 
It is very, very difficult to have a drummer as lead singer and/or frontman. Although I can think of some lesser-known bands that can claim this, I can only come up with two widely popular bands that have that setup, the Eagles and post-Peter Gabriel Genesis. (And the latter was helped by the rise of MTV -- since MTV-style music videos didn't have to be live performances, Phil Collins wasn't stuck behind the drums and could be shown doing whatever -- an option which obviously wasn't prevalent in the early 1960s.)

I take your point, but when your counterexamples are Don Henley and Phil Collins -- two of the biggest stars of the 1980s! -- that's a pretty hefty exception!
 
I take your point, but when your counterexamples are Don Henley and Phil Collins -- two of the biggest stars of the 1980s! -- that's a pretty hefty exception!

The counter example is also Pete Best himself. After the Beatles dismissed him, Pete Best was the leader of the Pete Best and the All-Stars (taking over the band, which was previously Lee Curtis and the All-Stars), the Pete Best Four and the Pete Best Combo. And of course there is his current group, the Pete Best band, though that is a modern example. And Brian Epstein offered to form a group around Best. In the face of that, you cannot say Pete Best could not be put in a leadership role.
 
I'm not sure if I mentioned this, but I think Pete Best would make for a less stable dynamic compared to the situation as it existed with Ringo Starr. For that reason, I think it's more likely that the Beatles will go a less "Beatle" route where the band is what it is, with all the members always the same, and they split together. Instead, I suspect they'd go a route more like other bands where members may come and go and the lineup could shift and things could splinter and break off.

Ringo has the benefit of being Ringo. He is often criticized for being what it means to be Ringo, but those criticisms are not fair. His lack of ego is commonly mistaken for being a hanger on that got lucky to even be there and never did his part to really deserve it. His drum playing style, also driven by a lack of ego, is mistaken for being bad. It isn't. It is deceptively simple, Ringo was good at keeping time, and he played exactly what the other members asked him to play so what you hear is what the other members wanted. Ringo was a good drummer, as you can hear on the track "Rain" which Ringo said was the most complicated he ever did drum on a Beatles recording, as well as his drum solo in "The End" (which the other members had to convince him to do; again, lack of ego).

That lack of ego worked very well within the group, as did Ringo's nature. They were honest when they said he was a better Beatle. And his lack of ego meant he never tried to compete for face time, understanding he'd get enough, and he never tried to compete with Lennon and McCartney, and the other Beatles always let Ringo do a song or two for an album. That allowed for the dynamic where Lennon and McCartney were the leaders with their own leadership dynamic amongst themselves, George Harrison was more an up and comer, and Ringo Starr was like a glue who contributed his fair and needed share as much as was needed.

Pete Best seems like a different dynamic from Ringo Starr so far as I know of him. It may not be as overt as some sources say, but there does appear that Pete Best had an ego; not, perhaps, greater than the other members, but at least equal to them, and that may present a problem. That's rocking the boat. That is Pete Best wanting to have an input on the group direction more than Ringo did or attempted. That is Pete Best wanting to contribute songs and have prominence more than Ringo did or attempted. That makes things less stable, which opens up the prospects for greater tensions and split up and members leaving and/or being brought on and all that sort of thing. You also have the factor of what the fan base will push, because while Ringo Starr was the beloved funny one, he wasn't the pretty one. Pete Best was probably, in his time, the best looking Beatle, and that presents a problem if the audience makes him their favorite and thus the most prominent of the group.

Then again, maybe that dynamic could still work, with the instability due to a member who would want more prominence and input compared to Ringo's humbleness not being too grave or stressing, and thus not breaking up the band or making it do what most bands do with changing lineups. And though I do believe such a thing is more likely, that doesn't mean it is what would have happened.
 
If Pete had an ego equivalent of John and Paul, imagine the dust-ups. It would be a struggle for control to the nth degree.

Later, when John ceded control to Paul through indifference, he'd really be setting up a battle one-on-one between Paul and Pete. Maybe, John being John, he'd do just that to sic them on each other, just to see who survived, and then assume control after the battle.

All in all, if Pete is in the band, then George of all people gets left behind. He developed to take his place with Lennon and McCartney. With Best also a competitor (Ringo never was), he'd have a harder time getting heard.

As an aside, did Pete write? If not, maybe it doesn't matter at all. As the band starts to become more and more about music and less about performing, that leaves a non-writing Pete in a lurch. Maybe he outright quits in 66 or 67, since he'd lose his primary purpose of live performance.
 
If Pete had an ego equivalent of John and Paul, imagine the dust-ups. It would be a struggle for control to the nth degree.

Later, when John ceded control to Paul through indifference, he'd really be setting up a battle one-on-one between Paul and Pete. Maybe, John being John, he'd do just that to sic them on each other, just to see who survived, and then assume control after the battle.

All in all, if Pete is in the band, then George of all people gets left behind. He developed to take his place with Lennon and McCartney. With Best also a competitor (Ringo never was), he'd have a harder time getting heard.

As an aside, did Pete write? If not, maybe it doesn't matter at all. As the band starts to become more and more about music and less about performing, that leaves a non-writing Pete in a lurch. Maybe he outright quits in 66 or 67, since he'd lose his primary purpose of live performance.

If Pete had an ego akin to John and Paul, he'd be muscled out of every band decision. I doubt he'd last till Sgt. Peppers...

He'd hardly be like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PMGbrTruXsE

But yeah.. after the death of Epstein, I can imagine an earlier breakup of The Beatles if he somehow remains.

I don't know if Pete's ego was on the scale of Lennon/McCartney. And if his ego were sizeable, I don't know if he was or would be aware of it or would just think of it as getting his fair share and not seeing a problem with it, much the same way Paul McCartney ended up getting to the point where the Beatles saw him as bossy and wanting too much control of the group when Paul just thought he was keeping things together.

I think this would need to branch off into two scenarios. One being Pete Best with an ego to want to be as big as Lennon or McCartney, even if he weren't aware that's what it was. One with Pete Best having a bigger ego than Ringo and a bigger desire to chime in on the group than Ringo, but not in an egomaniac way and more on scale with the way George Harrison was, give or take.
The first would not work out whatsoever. Pete Best would certainly overshadow George Harrison in such an instance and introduce the destabilizing element into the band by taking on the hegemony of Lennon and McCartney. That would also lend to the strong possibility of Pete Best being kicked out later down the road, or the Beatles imploding and breaking up.
The second would be a better scenario, but it also introduces some complications. Ringo Starr was a very good Beatle and good for the band. People think Ringo wasn't vital, which is wrong. He was just humble and cool. Ringo Starr went with the flow and did all he could do or whatever they asked him to do. He was like a glue, because whenever the Beatles started to tense because they were each growing musically or wanted more and different input on the direction, Ringo was good with whatever. Pete wouldn't be like that in this scenario. He wouldn't want to be like Lennon or McCartney, but he would want to be an equal and would at least want the input George Harrison had. That isn't objectively anything bad, but you have to look at the relationship and issues of the Beatles. Ringo Starr's humbleness and going with the flow let off some pressure and complications that could have been there otherwise. This is the otherwise. You have one more member who wants to chime in on the direction and wants more of his fair share and all of those other things that Lennon, McCartney and even Harrison did which Ringo didn't. That could very much lend greater fire to the issues of the Beatles which could create an earlier break up, or at least more tensions and complications. You also have to take into account how hard headed Pete could be and how not-with-the-plan he could be. He refused to get the haircut the band hand, for example (though he did get one later, after he was kicked out). And there's this from Tony Sheridan about Pete's not getting it together. That could very well mean Pete being hard headed about what goes on as the group gets bigger, making him less a team member and perhaps more of a hindrance.

I think Pete Best would have a very good likelihood to get kicked out of the group later down the road. Ringo had better chemistry and personality for the Beatles. And there's all the issues I mentioned. In that way, I think the Beatles would have been more like other bands in a way they weren't, which is taking in new people and shedding new people (though it may only be Best that it's ever done with). And in that way, I think Ringo shows how important he was to the group in just being Ringo. Could Pete have gotten with the program as time went on and gotten it together enough? I don't know.
 
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I think it would have been the case of "Would Pete be dictated to and how long for?" He'd put up with it for a while.. but if he had a 'Ringo song' on the album which garnered praise then he would try and impose a little more.
 
Re the Beatles using a session drummer in the studio: If that's the case, after 1966, when they stopped touring, there's no reason for Best to have stayed in the group if they were to become solely a studio band.
 
I had a thought, and hopefully this isn't long enough a period for it to be considered a necro. Pete Best is the polar opposite of Ringo Starr in personality. Best is rather shy and reserved, rather similar to George Harrison, whereas Ringo Starr is very much out there and a comedian. Ringo Starr's appeal also balanced out the group. Ringo appealed to kids and mothers, George Harrison appealed to the mystics and spiritualists, John Lennon appealed to intellectuals and people who acted in the university sort of way, and McCartney appealed to the teenyboppers.

So what I think the case would or could be is that John and Paul would be much more at the forefront of the group, in dynamic and in PR and there's especially the way the Americans receive them, than even the OTL. And George and Pete would be much more the background. So on the whole, it'd be less well rounded...possibly. That musical thesis may not hold water. I'm just looking at how shy Pete Best is and how much he does not have the sort of get-out-there nature Ringo Starr does.
And then we come to the second issue I mentioned, which is the appeal. I don't know who exactly Pete Best could appeal to in the group dynamic, except to girls. And that steals thunder from Paul, or possibly could, and it could even make Paul McCartney have to become something else within the group, passively or actively. And you also have the issue of the appeal that Ringo Starr had not being made up for.
 
This is off topic, but you've made me realize yet another flaw with Larry Kirwan's Liverpool Fantasy. It does not mention Pete Best at all!
 
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