WI: Bavaria United Germany?

[Oba Cahokia]

Original Artist is unknown user deleted their reddit account long time ago.

How different would the 19th Century be? What would be the attitude towards this in the German states?

 

[Kellan Sullivan]

Original Artist is unknown user deleted their reddit account long time ago.
View attachment 817301
How different would the 19th Century be? What would be the attitude towards this in the German states?

just a warning, you need to actually sketch a scenario, not just a question. Otherwise the mods will lock the thread.

Now that that's out of the way: I think Germany would look very different. Although it will depend on when this happens. Ludwig II is an unlikely unifier unless he gets told to do it by Richard Wagner. Which means we're left with his dad or granddad (iffy prospects at best). That said, Prussia is clearly "excluded" on the map, yet the Prussian Rhineland is a part of Germany? How did that happen? Unless its at Vienna and the Rhineland was given to someone else- though why it would go to Bavaria I'm not sure. Did Saxony make the trade with Prussia in the 1820s?

Lots of questions

 

[Lalli]

I think that POD for Germany being united by Bavaria should be before War of Austrian Succession. You need with some way stop Austria and Prussia becoming top dogs of Germany. And it would be bit hard for completely landlocked nation. Possible but not easy.

 

[Oba Cahokia]

just a warning, you need to actually sketch a scenario, not just a question. Otherwise the mods will lock the thread.

Now that that's out of the way: I think Germany would look very different. Although it will depend on when this happens. Ludwig II is an unlikely unifier unless he gets told to do it by Richard Wagner. Which means we're left with his dad or granddad (iffy prospects at best). That said, Prussia is clearly "excluded" on the map, yet the Prussian Rhineland is a part of Germany? How did that happen? Unless its at Vienna and the Rhineland was given to someone else- though why it would go to Bavaria I'm not sure. Did Saxony make the trade with Prussia in the 1820s?

Lots of questions

Thanks for the warning and yes Prussia and Saxony a trade.

 

[Discernible]

Map does show 1818 Prussian territory in this Bavarian united Germany which would suggest that there was military conflict between the Bavarian-led unifiers and Prussia:

...and Austro-Hungary appears to have gained a lot of land from Italy but it's not really clear from the map's resolution if they have acquired a lot of the Dalmatian coast:

 

[Fabius Maximus]

That said, Prussia is clearly "excluded" on the map, yet the Prussian Rhineland is a part of Germany? How did that happen? Unless its at Vienna and the Rhineland was given to someone else- though why it would go to Bavaria I'm not sure. Did Saxony make the trade with Prussia in the 1820s?

Maybe Bavaria kicked Prussia out of the German Confederation after TTL's Austro-Prussian War equivalent (the Bavaro-Prussian War, presumably), and confiscated Prussia's lands in western and central Germany to make sure it couldn't interfere in German affairs.

 

[Mikestone8]

Maybe Austria wins Koniggratz, and Napoleon III steps in and occupies Prussia's Rhenish Provinces, and at the peace insists on them going to Bavaria, thus putting her head and shoulders above the other middle-sized states. So you end up with Austria, Prussia (what's left of it) and a West German Confederation headed by Bavaria.

 

[tonsofun]

I think a lot depends on how different Bavarians were seen back then. A google search only gives me modern sources which seems to indicate that nowadays Bavarians aren't seen a true Germans by the northerners. This seems to be partly connected to Bayern Munich winning so much. But this is just a quick google search. I haven't asked any actual Germans or Bavarians.
But one thing worth bringing up is religion. Bavaria is majority Catholic at this time and the north is majority protestant at this time. Do we know how northerners at this time are going to feel about this?
AFAIK Bavaria and other southern states only joined Germany after the Franco-Prussian war. Presumably in this tl, Bavaria humiliates France in the same way.

 

[GenghisKhanfan]

Map does show 1818 Prussian territory in this Bavarian united Germany which would suggest that there was military conflict between the Bavarian-led unifiers and Prussia:

View attachment 817352

...and Austro-Hungary appears to have gained a lot of land from Italy but it's not really clear from the map's resolution if they have acquired a lot of the Dalmatian coast:

View attachment 817354

I don't think Bavaria had the military capability to do so. Plus, the fact is, Bavaria was often riding the coat-tails of Austria, so its unlikely that Austria would support Bavaria's unification ambitions especially if they could hijack it to their own advantage