WI: Battle of Leyte Gulf

My question is what if Halsey, at the Battle of Leyte Gulf, didn’t fall for the Japanese’s northern ruse.

“If too cautious employment of the battleships at the Philippine Sea had allowed the bulk of the Japanese Surface Fleet to escape, their too impetuous handling by Admiral William “Bull” Halsey cheated them of their best chance for a gunnery duel at Leyte Gulf. Briefly, the Japanese hoped to lure Halsey away by using their carriers-essentially impotent because of losses in June- as bait. If Halsey would charge the red flag, Japanese surface units, headed by the Yamato and Musashi, would pass through San Bernardino Strait and attack cargo and transport ships. Halsey fell for the ruse. Flying his flag in the New Jersey, he uncovered the strait by taking all of his ships toward the carrier decoy force at high speed. Officers on the Iowa were unanimous in believing Halsey was making a major mistake. Early in the morning on 25 October, the fast battleships had less than one hour to steam before opening fire on the helpless carrier force. However, for hours Halsey had been hearing calls for help from American vessels suffering under the Yamato’s 18.1-inch shellfire. The great Japanese battleship had slipped through the unguarded strait. Halsey doubled back. With 300 miles to go, he was forced to slow fuel destroyers and finally detached the Iowa and New Jersey with three light cruisers and eight destroyers to hurry ahead at 18 knots. The task group reached the strait three hours too late. Only the crippled Nowaki fell victim to the cruiser screen.” Source (The Iowa Class Battleships by Malcolm Muir)

What if Task Force 38 stayed put or got back in time to engage the Japanese Center Force? Would the American victory at Leyte Gulf have been more decisive? Would the Japanese finally have gotten the battleship showdown they had been looking for the entire war? Could we have seen an ultimate battle of Yamato VS Iowa and New Jersey?
 

sharlin

Banned
By the time the IJN ran into the Taffy's their crews were rather tired and when they spotted carriers, they panicked, misidentifying them as fleet units to which Admiral Kurita ordered an all out charge, forgoing formations so to get in range as fast as possible before being drowned in a wall of aircraft.

If TF38 had remained behind its probable that they would have moved to interpose themselves between the oncoming IJN ships and the running Taffy's. Upon seeing hostile battleships/major surface units its safe to assume that Kurita wouldn't order a general persuit and would settle down for a gunnery battle.

Thing is even against the Taffy's the IJN's gunnery was bloody aweful, Yamato didn't hit anything, Nagato may have hit something once and they had serious issues with a few DE's and DDs let alone front line battleships.

It would be one hell of a naval battle, with probably several good movies made about it, but the IJN's main surface units would have been wiped out, but not without causing some serious damage and losses to US ships.
 
Wouldnt Halseys carriers have planes armed with antiship bombs, something Taffy lacked? In that case Yamato goes to the bottom one year early
 
Wouldnt Halseys carriers have planes armed with antiship bombs, something Taffy lacked? In that case Yamato goes to the bottom one year early


TF 38 (3rd fleet) already had delivered a blow to the centerforce of Kurita, by sinking Musashi with torpedoes. This indicates the TF 38 was armed for anti shipping very well. Bombs rarely do serious damage to battleships, unless these are special ones, like the Fx-1400, or Tallboy. USN inventory lacked these highly sophisticated ordonance, but used the divebomber to surpress FLAK of battleships, which they did quite well.
 
TF 38 (3rd fleet) already had delivered a blow to the centerforce of Kurita, by sinking Musashi with torpedoes. This indicates the TF 38 was armed for anti shipping very well. Bombs rarely do serious damage to battleships, unless these are special ones, like the Fx-1400, or Tallboy. USN inventory lacked these highly sophisticated ordonance, but used the divebomber to surpress FLAK of battleships, which they did quite well.

No account I have read has ever stated that Musashi was sunk by torpedoes alone. It took 16-17 bombs, of 2,000 lbs and 6-20 torpedo hits plus 4 duds. The 4 duds were mentioned by crewmen who reported 10 torpedoes strikes with detonation. A number of near misses was also reported. To presume that Musashi was sunk by torpedoes is an opinion not supported by facts. Why don't we wait for Clive Cussler.
 
No account I have read has ever stated that Musashi was sunk by torpedoes alone. It took 16-17 bombs, of 2,000 lbs and 6-20 torpedo hits plus 4 duds. The 4 duds were mentioned by crewmen who reported 10 torpedoes strikes with detonation. A number of near misses was also reported. To presume that Musashi was sunk by torpedoes is an opinion not supported by facts. Why don't we wait for Clive Cussler.


COmpared to her sistership Yamato, it is supposed the Musashi had the same amount of protection, as she was her sistership. The ends were soft and could be breached by bombs, as happened to Yamato, but the vital Citadel is covered by 7.9 inch armor on her deck, unable to breach by a 2000lbs bomb. By the way, the TF-38 normally deployed only 500 lbs and 1000 lbs bombs, as these could be carried by bombers, as well as fighters. These GP bombs were the ones used by Halsey's Helldivers and TBM's, when not using torpedoes.

There is a very detailed account on the net about what sank Musashi.
http://wikimapia.org/1896874/Wreck-of-HIJMS-Musashi-武蔵
USN aviators were instrcuted to use torpedoes to sink the vessel, while bombers were to surpress FLAK as good as possibel, making the TBM attack more effective. By the way, no battleship can survive the number of torpedoes, that hit Musashi, not Yamato, a few months later. It is torpedoes that sink ships, not ordinary bombs.
 
Battle: Yamato VS Iowa

Battle Yamato VS Iowa

"The outcome of a duel between Iowa and Yamato would have been more problematic and the two ships missed each other only by the narrowest margin at Leyte Gulf. The guns of both ships could penetrate the others decks above 35,000. At lesser battle ranges, the thicker side protection of the Yamato could have proved decisive. Hindsight certainly dictates that Iowa should not get too close too the Yamato, and presumably, the speed advantage of the American ship would have come into play."
 
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