WI Basil II had a son?

In OTL Emperor Basil II lead an austere unmarried life (though he is reported to have mistresses...) and after his death in 1025 the throne passed to his brother Constantine VIII who was a total incompetent (and his daughters disastrous marriages almost ruined the Empire...)
WI Basil II had a son? Maybe a bastard from one of his mistresses... He could proclaimed him co-Emperor and succeed him in 1025... His brother wouldnt be much bothered anyway... He was pretty much uninterested in administration and the military (more like a drunkard...)
How is a potential son of Basil II alters Byzantine History?
 

trajen777

Banned
No matter how bad his son was it could have only led to a much better future - consider in 1025
1. Tons of money in the Trea
2. 225,000 troops
3. No stong enemies
4. A balance between Military and other spending
 
No matter how bad his son was it could have only led to a much better future - consider in 1025
1. Tons of money in the Trea
2. 225,000 troops
3. No stong enemies
4. A balance between Military and other spending

Yes, Basil accomplished all that, and then his brother Constantine VIII and then Romanos III frittered all that away. That's why we're looking for Basil to have a Basil Junior so that the old man could instill some strong statesman values in him that Constantine never got.
 
If Basil fails to produce a son find a better husband for Zoe and marry her young so Basil II can educate personally her potential son and husband so they wont mess up with the Empire after his death...
 
The son would inherit exactly the same problems as the other Emperors did.

He could try and follow Basil's reactionary policy in handling them but that would not really be sustainable.

Any hope for success rests on something proto-Comnenian, being a highly militaristic and peripatetic Emperor keeping the provincial magnates in line.

A stronger Emperor may see a more rapid shift to mercenary forces and military centralisation, and his successors will face all the same problems when the Turks come.

On the plus side Sicily will probably be conquered and the position in Italy will be stronger.
 
How about the son is backed with a influancial mother, and uncles in military. ( A very big if, and this situation may lead to the overthrow of the heir, replaced by an uncle after they fought it out, winner takes it all)
 
How about the son is backed with a influancial mother, and uncles in military. ( A very big if, and this situation may lead to the overthrow of the heir, replaced by an uncle after they fought it out, winner takes it all)

Nah... Constantine VIII cared more about orgies and drinking... He wouldnt be an obstacle to a potential bastard of Basil II... If he was provided with orgies and wine he would be happy...
 
Basil II

He could turn out to be really mediocre, like Henry VI and Edward II of England. I would assume that he would have superior military training, with a father like Basil II. I often wondered why Basil did'nt do more to bring about a stronger succession. His niece Zoe could have been married when she was still of child bearing age.
 
I think the guy probably didn't want any competitors for the Purple, so he made sure that there wasn't anybody who could do what he did. That would account for his apparent lack of foresight on the successor front, especially in relation to not marrying Zoe to a potential successor. I think the problem probably is that the same personality traits that made him able to so effectively rule the empire also made him make sure that no one could replace him. He made himself indispensable to the Empire, and when he died it started falling apart.

Basil II was known as the "Father of the Army" due to his policy of taking care of the orphaned children of officers who had died in his campaigns. I don't know if this could be done at this point in Byzantine history, but what are the chances that Basil II could adopt one of these officers as his heir? He could marry this officer to Zoe, and declare them his heirs. The officer would have to be of either common or low noble origins, and support Basil's policy of supporting small farmers against the great landowning lords.

If he could have another long living successor like that, then he may be able to ward off Manzikert, and its attending unpleasantness.
 
Basil II

I consider his failure to arrange for a more competent succession his ultimate failure. That in my opinion, is what any ruler should be concerned about. It is an interesting comparison with Henry VIII of England, who struggle to have a male heir led to a religious revolution. But Basil prefered to leave it to fate. Or maybe the Byzantine tradition was that different.
 

Sargon

Donor
Monthly Donor
It may have been that he did marry and have children, explaining why he didn't make further efforts to marry off Zoe (I think even despite opposition from his brother he would have done it if he really needed to) but perhaps that information became lost or missing from the chronicles and sources. Maybe they all died young, or perhaps his missing wife died in childbirth. It does strike me as odd that he went to such efforts to secure the Empire, and he, more than anyone, was more than aware of the deficiencies of his brother. Even more odd is that it is recorded that he was something of a ladies' man in his youth which makes one wonder why he changed so much in that regard.


Sargon
 
It may have been that he did marry and have children, explaining why he didn't make further efforts to marry off Zoe (I think even despite opposition from his brother he would have done it if he really needed to) but perhaps that information became lost or missing from the chronicles and sources. Maybe they all died young, or perhaps his missing wife died in childbirth. It does strike me as odd that he went to such efforts to secure the Empire, and he, more than anyone, was more than aware of the deficiencies of his brother. Even more odd is that it is recorded that he was something of a ladies' man in his youth which makes one wonder why he changed so much in that regard.


Sargon

Basil II never married... If he was married there would be at least one referral to an unnamed wife in Byzantine or Western Chronicles... On the contrary every writer (Byzantine or Western) agree to the fact that Basil II was a "ladies man"...
A Royal Bastard by Basil II could do the trick however since in a Roman way Emperors had to be elected (in theory...) by the Senate the Army and the People... Succession wasnt following any specific pattern and was practically open... So if Basil II has a bastard by one of his mistresses (lets call him Romanos) he could train him to become a brilliant soldier and a suberb administrator and then whe he is done educating him he crowns him co-emperor and forces the Senate and the army to accept him...
 

Sargon

Donor
Monthly Donor
Basil II never married... If he was married there would be at least one referral to an unnamed wife in Byzantine or Western Chronicles... On the contrary every writer (Byzantine or Western) agree to the fact that Basil II was a "ladies man"...
A Royal Bastard by Basil II could do the trick however since in a Roman way Emperors had to be elected (in theory...) by the Senate the Army and the People... Succession wasnt following any specific pattern and was practically open... So if Basil II has a bastard by one of his mistresses (lets call him Romanos) he could train him to become a brilliant soldier and a suberb administrator and then whe he is done educating him he crowns him co-emperor and forces the Senate and the army to accept him...

It is very likely he never married, but it is by no means impossible that a marriage could be missing from the sources...we can't discount it entirely...it's not as if important things have not been left out before. And it would make it easier to explain some things. Still, he also strikes me as the sort of person who would be so completely focused on his work, he would never have time for a wife.


Sargon
 
Does anyone see the merit in the idea that Basil II didn't have a strong successor because he didn't want anyone in the Empire who could challenge him? If you look at his reign, there was a lot of resentment among the great landowning lord against Basil II. I think that he purposely gave them no outlet from which to launch an effective bid for power against him.

Marry Zoe to a sycophant, and hope the son is a genius is the best I think that your going to get with this guy, barring changes to his personality.
 
It depends on the mother and the child. If he marries a foreign princess it might mean expansion of the Empire by inheritance or claim to the throne, somehow I would think the southern Ukraine might become Byzantine this way. But as history notes, the 50 years after Basil II were mostly stable, and an ambitious Emperor with even half of the skills of Basil could expand into several areas. I could see Sicily, Sardinia, Corsica, the Baeleric Islands, Venice, Tunisia, Romania, southern Ukraine, Syria/Levant, the Caucasus, Kurdistan, the Adriatic coast of Italy, and perhaps Hungary as potential targets. With any luck, the Empire might secure southern and eastern Italy along with the Balkans. It might avoid Manzikert altogether or create a bloodline of emperors that secure and restore large parts of the Empire.

Here's a possible map (source: http://homer.ugdsb.on.ca/jfr/jfr_geog/maps/Mediterranean_blank.bmp) if you're willing to paint the areas I've mentioned.
 
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Basil II wasnt exactly fond of being married... But he was a known womanizer and he could have fathered a son by one of his mistresses... Maybe if he had a son to raise him as his own copy Empire could be saved... Maybe he wasnt going to reveal that he was his father... just adopt him at some point when he would have shown his skills and he was loved by the people and name him his co-emperor and heir... The only thing we have to consider is if this potential son could have survived any overthrow attempts by some greedy General who discovers his real identity...
 
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