WI: Baltasar Carlos, Prince of Asturias lives

So Baltasar Carlos died at the age of 16, forcing his father, Philip IV, to remarry. This remarriage produced Carlos II, the last of the Spanish Habsburgs. So what if he didn't die? Would the Spanish House of Habsburg continue or would this just prolong the inevitable? How would Spanish domestic and foreign policy change with a competent monarch at the helm? Who would he marry? A French princess, an Austrian archduchess or someone else?
 
So Baltasar Carlos died at the age of 16, forcing his father, Philip IV, to remarry. This remarriage produced Carlos II, the last of the Spanish Habsburgs. So what if he didn't die? Would the Spanish House of Habsburg continue or would this just prolong the inevitable? How would Spanish domestic and foreign policy change with a competent monarch at the helm? Who would he marry? A French princess, an Austrian archduchess or someone else?
He will almost surely marry his betrothed and cousin Archduchess Maria Anna of Austria (yes, the same archduchess who his father marry after his death OTL)
 
He will almost surely marry his betrothed and cousin Archduchess Maria Anna of Austria (yes, the same archduchess who his father marry after his death OTL)

I saw something about that on Wikipedia but I wasn't sure if it was definite or one of those easily breakable engagements. A really interesting match would be le Grand Mademoiselle. She was the richest heiress in Europe, and could bring an end to the Franco-Spanish war.
 
I saw something about that on Wikipedia but I wasn't sure if it was definite or one of those easily breakable engagements. A really interesting match would be le Grand Mademoiselle. She was the richest heiress in Europe, and could bring an end to the Franco-Spanish war.

I think was definite considering who after the death of her betrothed she instead marry his father (and Philip chose to wait three years after his heir's death for marry Mariana) and usually both Spanish King and Austrian Emperor search a wife (for them or their heirs) in the other family branch and about the Franco-Spanish Relationship I do not think who another wedding can make anything more for ending the wars and if Charles must marry a first cousin a daughter of the Emperor is the logical choice (Philip's mother, Margaret, was an Austrian Archduchess, and his younger sister Maria Anna was the wife of Emperor Leopold II and Mariana's mother. Philip's eldest sister, Anne was the wife of Louis XIII and mother of Louis XIV and Philip's wife Elisabeth was a French princess, sister of Louis XIII and Gaston of Orleans, and Louis XIV was married with Maria Teresa of Spain, Philip IV and Elizabeth's daughter) and is impossible who the French King will propose or consent to a wedding between an heiress rich as his cousin the Grand Mademoiselle and the heir of Spain and likely the Spanish court want a full princess as future Queen)
 
I think was definite considering who after the death of her betrothed she instead marry his father (and Philip chose to wait three years after his heir's death for marry Mariana) and usually both Spanish King and Austrian Emperor search a wife (for them or their heirs) in the other family branch and about the Franco-Spanish Relationship I do not think who another wedding can make anything more for ending the wars and if Charles must marry a first cousin a daughter of the Emperor is the logical choice (Philip's mother, Margaret, was an Austrian Archduchess, and his younger sister Maria Anna was the wife of Emperor Leopold II and Mariana's mother. Philip's eldest sister, Anne was the wife of Louis XIII and mother of Louis XIV and Philip's wife Elisabeth was a French princess, sister of Louis XIII and Gaston of Orleans, and Louis XIV was married with Maria Teresa of Spain, Philip IV and Elizabeth's daughter) and is impossible who the French King will propose or consent to a wedding between an heiress rich as his cousin the Grand Mademoiselle and the heir of Spain and likely the Spanish court want a full princess as future Queen)

Its not impossible. Velasco managed to marry le Grand Mademoiselle married to Philip IV so its possible. The only real reason I can see it not happening is the war between France and Spain is still ongoing. Archduchess Mariana is probably the best candidate but that would probably just kick the can down the road. I mean she and Baltasar Carlos are still first cousins and le Grand Mademoiselle is really rich which would really help the Spanish finances. I wonder what is regal name would be? Baltasar Carlos I, Baltasar I or Carlos II?

So any ideas how Spanish Domestic and Foreign policy would differ with no regency and a healthy King to boot.
 
Its not impossible. Velasco managed to marry le Grand Mademoiselle married to Philip IV so its possible. The only real reason I can see it not happening is the war between France and Spain is still ongoing. Archduchess Mariana is probably the best candidate but that would probably just kick the can down the road. I mean she and Baltasar Carlos are still first cousins and le Grand Mademoiselle is really rich which would really help the Spanish finances. I wonder what is regal name would be? Baltasar Carlos I, Baltasar I or Carlos II?

So any ideas how Spanish Domestic and Foreign policy would differ with no regency and a healthy King to boot.

I never said was impossible, only really unlikely because Mariana was always the favorite and intended bride and do not forget who the Gran Mademoiselle also is a first cousin of Baltasar Carlos and the last thing who Louis XIV want is Philip IV being able to paid the full dowry of Maria Teresa, specially if he must also giving so many French territories in Spanish hand (and Velasco marry the Grand Mademoiselle to Philip IV after Mariana's death not instead of her)
 
I never said was impossible, only really unlikely because Mariana was always the favorite and intended bride and do not forget who the Gran Mademoiselle also is a first cousin of Baltasar Carlos and the last thing who Louis XIV want is Philip IV being able to paid the full dowry of Maria Teresa, specially if he must also giving so many French territories in Spanish hand (and Velasco marry the Grand Mademoiselle to Philip IV after Mariana's death not instead of her)

True about Philip IV. I was just using it as an example of how le Grand Mademoiselle could marry into a foreign land. As for Louis XIV, in 1646 he was eight. So his opinion means nothing. Plus if Mademoiselle marries Baltasar Carlos it would be a good 13 to 15 years before Louis marries Maria Teresa, so enough time would have passed between the two events that we don't know if the dowry would be paid or not. Hell, Baltasar Carlos could also chose not to pay the dowry or Louis XIV could try to seize Anne Marie Louise's estates in France as payment.
 
True about Philip IV. I was just using it as an example of how le Grand Mademoiselle could marry into a foreign land. As for Louis XIV, in 1646 he was eight. So his opinion means nothing. Plus if Mademoiselle marries Baltasar Carlos it would be a good 13 to 15 years before Louis marries Maria Teresa, so enough time would have passed between the two events that we don't know if the dowry would be paid or not. Hell, Baltasar Carlos could also chose not to pay the dowry or Louis XIV could try to seize Anne Marie Louise's estates in France as payment.
I forgotten to check the dates but then Queen Anne and Cardinal Mazarin first problem will be the French nobles and do not think who either would give a kingdom to the daughter of the notorious troublemaker Gaston of Orleans (specially with the easily strained relationship between France and Spain) before the Fronde and after the Fronde (in which both the Grande Mademoiselle and her father take a big part) is almost impossible...
likely you must kill of Mariana (because with her alive she will be the bride) and also Gaston and then can be a chance for this wedding...
 
I forgotten to check the dates but then Queen Anne and Cardinal Mazarin first problem will be the French nobles and do not think who either would give a kingdom to the daughter of the notorious troublemaker Gaston of Orleans (specially with the easily strained relationship between France and Spain) before the Fronde and after the Fronde (in which both the Grande Mademoiselle and her father take a big part) is almost impossible...
likely you must kill of Mariana (because with her alive she will be the bride) and also Gaston and then can be a chance for this wedding...

For Mariana, she could mary Baltasar and die in childbirth, thus le Grand Mademoiselle becomes his second wife. As for the Fronde, Mademoiselle and her father were involved in the second Fronde (1650-53) not the first, so as long as she is either married or in serious marriage negotiations before then I think it would be good. As for her father, I'm not really sure what to do with him.
 
I have to agree with Isabella. Baltasar Carlos surviving almost certainly means that he will marry Maria Anna of Austria. Remember that France still remained at war with Spain in the aftermath of the Thirty Years' War (for a long list of reasons) until the Treaty of the Pyrenees was signed in 1659, at which time Louis XIV and María Teresa were betrothed to seal the agreement.

Now, Baltasar Carlos may also end up remarrying at some point in the future if Maria Anna predeceases him without having produced male issue—and that could very well be to a French princess. This could go either way. Some may disagree with me, but it's worth remembering that Baltasar Carlos and Maria Anna would have slightly more generic distance than she and Felipe IV, and that in OTL, despite the disaster that was Carlos II, the couple managed to produce Margarita Teresa as well, who, despite all odds, was born physically and mentally healthy. There is no reason why Baltasar Carlos and Maria Anna can't do the same and produce a healthy son—though I grant you this is by no means a certainty and given the reproductive track record of the Habsburgs, the majority of their issue will probably die very young. In any case, as I have said, Baltasar Carlos may also end up remarrying and siring an heir.

As for how Spain would fair, definitely better than in OTL. The rule of Maria Anna and her favourites was disastrous, to say the least. The success of Baltasar Carlos will depend on:

—His ability to stabilise Spanish finances and prevent the bankruptcies that occurred OTL
—His ability to enact administrative reforms and centralise power against the opposition of the nobility, Church and various other privileged groups and institutions of the Spanish kingdoms (remember, 'Spain' at this point doesn't even really exist)
—His policies concerning relations with France and his brother-in-law Louis XIV, which will be quite different than OTL (for instance, butterflies will ensure in that the War of Devolution does not take place, at least for the reasons in OTL)
—His ability to produce an heir and secure his dynasty

As for his regnal name, I would assume 'Baltasar Carlos (I)' is most likely.

Amitiés,
Endymion
 
For Mariana, she could mary Baltasar and die in childbirth, thus le Grand Mademoiselle becomes his second wife. As for the Fronde, Mademoiselle and her father were involved in the second Fronde (1650-53) not the first, so as long as she is either married or in serious marriage negotiations before then I think it would be good. As for her father, I'm not really sure what to do with him.
This is impossible, because Mariana (born 24 December 1634) likely will not marry Baltasar before 1650 (in OTL she marry Philip IV in October 1949) and this make impossible her death in childbirth before the start of the Fronde (and in any case Gaston of Orleans was really a troublemaker during his brother's reign)


@Endymion: I think Baltasar Carlos regnal name will be Carlos II and yes being Baltasar the full brother of Maria Theresa, Louis XIV can not claim the Spanish Netherlands in her name as OTL
 
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This is impossible, because Mariana (born 24 December 1634) likely will not marry Baltasar before 1650 (in OTL she marry Philip IV in October 1949) and this make impossible her death in childbirth before the start of the Fronde (and in any case Gaston of Orleans was really a troublemaker during his brother's reign)


@Endymion: I think Baltasar Carlos regnal name will be Carlos II and yes being Baltasar the full brother of Maria Theresa, Louis XIV can not claim the Spanish Netherlands in her name as OTL

For some reason I thought Mariana was 14 not 12, my bad:eek: (even that sounds creepy). So Mariana is the probable wife with Anne Marie Louise as a possible second wife.

Endymion: Your right about the Spanish Habsburgs: they seemed to be a hit and miss. However, it seems to me that the daughters of Austrian-Spanish matches were more healthy then the sons. So its really a coin toss as to whether their children survive and whether or not their healthy. I' inclined to think there's a possibility of remarriage. I mean OTL every Spanish Habsburg but Philip III (not sure if we count Charles V or not) remarried.

I can't find any info on how he would govern. He was sixteen when he died. Not a complete blank slate but young enough that he might not have any idea how he would govern.
 
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